Tesla sales plunge 40% in Europe as Chinese EV rival BYD's triple
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Again, asking for any type of source or statistic over anecdotes. Your "observations" go against reputable polling and statistics of people in China.
Was this survey conducted in Taiwan and signed as “China” complying with “one China policy”?
No.... in fact this was a Harvard study that started off with "Given how China is an authoritarian nightmare, how widespread is support for the government?"
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Well, I must have been super unlucky then as I have talked about it with like 5 different Chinese met at 5 different circumstances
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Tesla vs BYD is overhyped in Europe. Car sales rose 8%. Many European brands did better than this average. Hybrid and EV growth at about 35% in Europe should be story. Fine Tesla is sucking. We get it.
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Well, I must have been super unlucky then as I have talked about it with like 5 different Chinese met at 5 different circumstances
Yes... that is not only possible, but likely when n=5....
Please, the original claim was "Chinese people feel coerced", which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.
Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government's provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping's widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China's poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China's main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?
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I don't know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there's work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.
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No one is denying that the tariffs exist. I'm denying that it "balances out". BYD is still way cheaper than comparable EVs.
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don't need rock bottom prices to gain market share.
BYDs don't "seem" cheap. They are cheap.
Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD's own high end models are expensive too. They don't sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
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Yes... that is not only possible, but likely when n=5....
Please, the original claim was "Chinese people feel coerced", which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.
Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government's provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping's widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China's poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China's main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.
https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?
Did you actually read what you quote? It aligns with what I said - Chinese feel mostly satisfied with their government and don’t want the democracy, and don’t feel that their government is democratic. Claiming that Chinese believe that their country is democratic is not what Harvard did in the document that you’ve provided.
Regarding “not only possible but likely”: please do the math. If the share of population believing in X is 90%, the chance that none of the five selected people do X is (1 - 0.9)^5 = 0.001% (i.e., 1 in 100,000), assuming independence across people. That’s what you call likely?
PS. Why is this always the .ml instance
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Tesla vs BYD is overhyped in Europe. Car sales rose 8%. Many European brands did better than this average. Hybrid and EV growth at about 35% in Europe should be story. Fine Tesla is sucking. We get it.
It’s important to teach everyone that being a racist Nazi is a bad business strategy.
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Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD's own high end models are expensive too. They don't sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles.
No they're not. They're cheap because they're subsidized.
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Other options exist; you don't have to buy either. Volkswagen Group, Audi, Renault, BMW, Fiat etc all make EVs in Europe. Hyundai & Kia also both make excellent EVs.
Buying a Tesla is a choice these days. Nobody trips and falls into Tesla ownership. And although those cheap Chinese manufacturers look mighty tempting, they're not the only alternative out there.
Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.
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Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
A bike costs a fraction of a car
Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars
Bicycles don't emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it's a fraction of a fraction of a car because you're not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.
Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don't need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle
It creates much much less pollution from tire dust
It's much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round
It's healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes
It cuts the noise pollution
It's cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.
It's way less wasteful
It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I've never heard of bicycle road rage
Need more?
Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this
It's really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.
For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation
For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.
In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don't have a car. Not because they can't (they totally can) but because it's stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?
That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.
Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.
While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won't happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.
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Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
I'm all for fuck the US but don't you think Canada can make it's own cars? Being dependent on China's economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
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Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.
On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.
Why are German cars a bad choice? I'd rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.
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Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they'll all go down off that cliff.
There is no way I would tickle him!
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I'm all for fuck the US but don't you think Canada can make it's own cars? Being dependent on China's economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.
While Canada making its own affordable, long range EV's would be ideal in the long run, we literally have no canadian-owned production facilities or brands that currently can, or do produce low or mid end cars, and Canada seems to have no interest in subsidising those.
Which means, in the short run, I want a vehicle I can afford to buy that doesn't give me range anxiety, and the only reason I can't is because Canada literally doubled the price of the cars that currently exist that fit my requirements because the US asked them to.
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That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.
Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.
While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won't happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.
Us as well. I am disabled. One hour drive one way to the hospital. Grocery store is half an hour. A train would be awesome but they keep ripping up tracks here so that's not likely.
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They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist
Source?
If a country is not a divisive hellscape of anger, it must be because they are too afraid to answer surveys honestly? If fear motivated answers then "democracy is impotant" might score low if "there wasn't a genuine feeling that people are heard in China".
Look at the massive gap in west between democracy is important and the 40% of people too distracted to understand that their governments don't serve them. Think hard of what a nightmarish dystopia that is for a second, and then realize that part of that divisiveness is politicians telling you (and you repeating their propaganda as absolute) we need a path to war against China that will make it all better.
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Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?
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On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.
Why are German cars a bad choice? I'd rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.
It'll probably be based on some silly WW2-era grudge, which I find stupid.
Or Dieselgate, which while awful, despite what the headlines would have you believe, the VW group was far from the only manufacturer with illegally high diesel emissions, in fact, they were far from being the worst.
There are of course other things, VW has started trying to get into the DLC for cars bullshit that others have, but IMO that pales in comparison to Elon's bullshit or China literally using slave labour.
E: oops, there's some transparency issues on that Wikipedia graph. Dark mode users may struggle. Here's the link: Diesel Emissions Scandal
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There is no way I would tickle him!
What if you could use a baseball bat? Maybe with nails in it.
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CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn't be any surprise they're selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I'm immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren't subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don't know what you're talking about, and "everyone's a tankie" for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
