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Tesla sales plunge 40% in Europe as Chinese EV rival BYD's triple

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  • Well, I must have been super unlucky then as I have talked about it with like 5 different Chinese met at 5 different circumstances

    Yes... that is not only possible, but likely when n=5....

    Please, the original claim was "Chinese people feel coerced", which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.

    Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government's provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping's widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China's poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China's main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.

    https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

    Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?

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    I don't know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there's work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.

  • No one is denying that the tariffs exist. I'm denying that it "balances out". BYD is still way cheaper than comparable EVs.

    BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.

    Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don't need rock bottom prices to gain market share.

    BYDs don't "seem" cheap. They are cheap.

    Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD's own high end models are expensive too. They don't sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.

  • Yes... that is not only possible, but likely when n=5....

    Please, the original claim was "Chinese people feel coerced", which is wrong by every metric, and there is no evidence to support this claim.

    Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima- cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chi- nese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government's provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete- ly erased, and the public appeared generally support- ive of Xi Jinping's widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China's poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China's main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.

    https://rajawali.hks.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

    Let me guess: Harvard is tankie?

    Did you actually read what you quote? It aligns with what I said - Chinese feel mostly satisfied with their government and don’t want the democracy, and don’t feel that their government is democratic. Claiming that Chinese believe that their country is democratic is not what Harvard did in the document that you’ve provided.

    Regarding “not only possible but likely”: please do the math. If the share of population believing in X is 90%, the chance that none of the five selected people do X is (1 - 0.9)^5 = 0.001% (i.e., 1 in 100,000), assuming independence across people. That’s what you call likely?

    PS. Why is this always the .ml instance 😀

  • Tesla vs BYD is overhyped in Europe. Car sales rose 8%. Many European brands did better than this average. Hybrid and EV growth at about 35% in Europe should be story. Fine Tesla is sucking. We get it.

    It’s important to teach everyone that being a racist Nazi is a bad business strategy.

  • Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD's own high end models are expensive too. They don't sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.

    Yes, they're cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles.

    No they're not. They're cheap because they're subsidized.

  • Other options exist; you don't have to buy either. Volkswagen Group, Audi, Renault, BMW, Fiat etc all make EVs in Europe. Hyundai & Kia also both make excellent EVs.

    Buying a Tesla is a choice these days. Nobody trips and falls into Tesla ownership. And although those cheap Chinese manufacturers look mighty tempting, they're not the only alternative out there.

    Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.

  • Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.

    A bike costs a fraction of a car

    Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars

    Bicycles don't emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it's a fraction of a fraction of a car because you're not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.

    Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don't need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle

    It creates much much less pollution from tire dust

    It's much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round

    It's healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes

    It cuts the noise pollution

    It's cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.

    It's way less wasteful

    It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I've never heard of bicycle road rage

    Need more?

    Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this

    It's really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.

    For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation

    For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.

    In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don't have a car. Not because they can't (they totally can) but because it's stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?

    That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.

    Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.

    While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won't happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.

  • Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.

    I'm all for fuck the US but don't you think Canada can make it's own cars? Being dependent on China's economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.

  • Though, you don’t want to buy German either if you want to support “good”. VW, Audi, BMW, all German car mafia.

    On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.

    Why are German cars a bad choice? I'd rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.

  • Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they'll all go down off that cliff.

    There is no way I would tickle him!

  • I'm all for fuck the US but don't you think Canada can make it's own cars? Being dependent on China's economy is no better than being dependent on the US or Europe.

    While Canada making its own affordable, long range EV's would be ideal in the long run, we literally have no canadian-owned production facilities or brands that currently can, or do produce low or mid end cars, and Canada seems to have no interest in subsidising those.

    Which means, in the short run, I want a vehicle I can afford to buy that doesn't give me range anxiety, and the only reason I can't is because Canada literally doubled the price of the cars that currently exist that fit my requirements because the US asked them to.

  • That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.

    Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.

    While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won't happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.

    Us as well. I am disabled. One hour drive one way to the hospital. Grocery store is half an hour. A train would be awesome but they keep ripping up tracks here so that's not likely.

  • They’re in the phase where people are too scared to resist

    Source?

    If a country is not a divisive hellscape of anger, it must be because they are too afraid to answer surveys honestly? If fear motivated answers then "democracy is impotant" might score low if "there wasn't a genuine feeling that people are heard in China".

    Look at the massive gap in west between democracy is important and the 40% of people too distracted to understand that their governments don't serve them. Think hard of what a nightmarish dystopia that is for a second, and then realize that part of that divisiveness is politicians telling you (and you repeating their propaganda as absolute) we need a path to war against China that will make it all better.

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    Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?

  • On a side note, Audi and VW are both under the same owner.

    Why are German cars a bad choice? I'd rather buy German than get another Citroen tbh.

    It'll probably be based on some silly WW2-era grudge, which I find stupid.

    Or Dieselgate, which while awful, despite what the headlines would have you believe, the VW group was far from the only manufacturer with illegally high diesel emissions, in fact, they were far from being the worst.

    There are of course other things, VW has started trying to get into the DLC for cars bullshit that others have, but IMO that pales in comparison to Elon's bullshit or China literally using slave labour.

    E: oops, there's some transparency issues on that Wikipedia graph. Dark mode users may struggle. Here's the link: Diesel Emissions Scandal

  • There is no way I would tickle him!

    What if you could use a baseball bat? Maybe with nails in it.

  • CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn't be any surprise they're selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.

    E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I'm immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.

    E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.

    CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs

    Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren't subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.

    Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and

    which basically forces people to buy them

    a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.

    You are being downvoted because you don't know what you're talking about, and "everyone's a tankie" for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.

  • Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.

    in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.

    European brands doing well. I don't know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.

  • I don't know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there's work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.

    I'm completely out of shape and don't exercise at all, but commuted to work on a bike when my workplace was ~5 miles away. Wasn't hard at all and only took a little longer than a car. Had a rack on the back and bags to pick up groceries too. If you need carry a lot of heavy tools every day, it obviously wouldn't be ideal. Even then a bicycle trailer could be used up to something like 100lbs.

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    Wasn’t he also a mod of some morally questionable subs? or was it just spez?
  • Police rule out using Live Facial Recognition on Surrey Street

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    How? They've literally been asking for more crime cameras be installed to fight crime since a resident was murdered. "It's not in the budget." More on duty police? "Sorry, it's just not in the budget." Live facial recognition tracking system that doesn't exist anywhere else and can be used to collect data and create a giant AI database with data from every civilian it tracks. That data can then coincidentally be used to train AI models and enhance profits for companies like Palantir. "Yeah we should be able to swing that in the budget." Basically the exact same story is happening in the U.S. city where I live. We have a boil water advisory every other week, we have terrible roads, and awful schools but somehow the city has the budget to update our cameras so we will become the first city to test this out. After Palantir already secretly used our city to create and test their predictive policing model (which still fucking sucks btw). https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predictive-policing-tool-new-orleans-nopd Oh also Palantir happens to be currently working with the U.S. government to create a giant database of every citizen. https://www.mercurynews.com/?p=12164379%2F
  • China's Robotaxi Companies Are Racing Ahead of Tesla

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    It could. Imagine 80% autonomous vehicle traffic, 30% of that is multipassenger capable taxi service. Autonomous vehicle lanes moving reliably at 75mph. With this amount of taxi service the advantages of personal vehicle ownership falls and the wait time for an available pickup diminishes rapidly. China has many areas with pretty good public transportation. In the US, tech advances and legislation changes to enable the above model is better suited to the existing infrastructure.
  • Dutch MPs want citizens to own the copyright to their faces

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    Not enough, we own our identify far more than mere copyright (which should be abolished). The protection and ownership of our biodata should be built on copyright. It should be a standalone protection.
  • A Deep Dive into All Four Generations of the Honda Acty Truck

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  • Fatphobia Is Fueled by AI-Created Images, Study Finds

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    I pretty much agree. The only thing I would add is that it's not our place to tell others to lose weight or to point out their weight; people already know they are overweight and that it's unhealthy. We shouldn't be policing other people's bodies. It's also possible to be overweight and have body positivity; being overweight doesn't equate to being unattractive.
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    It varies based on local legislation, so in some places paying ransoms is banned but it's by no means universal. It's totally valid to be against paying ransoms wherever possible, but it's not entirely black and white in some situations. For example, what if a hospital gets ransomed? Say they serve an area not served by other facilities, and if they can't get back online quickly people will die? Sounds dramatic, but critical public services get ransomed all the time and there are undeniable real world consequences. Recovery from ransomware can cost significantly more than a ransom payment if you're not prepared. It can also take months to years to recover, especially if you're simultaneously fighting to evict a persistent (annoyed, unpaid) threat actor from your environment. For the record I don't think ransoms should be paid in most scenarios, but I do think there is some nuance to consider here.