A fake Facebook event disguised as a math problem has been one of its top posts for 6 months
-
It’s ambiguous which one of these is correct. Hence the best method we have for “correct” is left to right.
The solution accepted anywhere but in the US school system range from "Bloody use parenthesis, then" over "Why is there more than one division in this formula why didn't you re-arrange everything to be less confusing" to "50 Hertz, in base units, are 50s^-1^".
More practically speaking: Ultimately, you'll want to do algebra with these things. If you rely on "left to right" type of precedence rules re-arranging formulas becomes way harder because now you have to contend with that kind of implicit constraint. It makes everything harder for no reason whatsoever so no actual mathematician, or other people using maths in earnest, use that kind of notation.
I fully agree that if it comes down to "left to right" the problem really needs to be rewritten to be more clear. But I've just shown why that "rule" is a common part of these meme problems because it is so weird and quite esoteric.
-
Maybe I'm wrong but the way I explain it is until the ambiguity is removed by adding in extra information to make it more specific then all those answers are correct.
"I saw her duck"
Until the author gives me clarity then that sentence has multiple meanings. With math, it doesn't click for people that the equation is incomplete. In an English sentence, ambiguity makes more sense and the common sense approach would be to clarify what the meaning is
100% with you. "Left to right" as far as I can tell only exists to make otherwise "unsolvable" problems a kind of official solution. I personally feel like it is a bodge, and I would rather the correct solution for such a problem to be undefined.
-
So let's try out some different prioritization systems.
Left to right:
(((6 * 4) / 2) * 3) / 9 ((24 / 2) * 3) / 9 (12 * 3) / 9 36 / 9 = 4
Right to left:
6 * (4 / (2 * (3 / 9))) 6 * (4 / (2 * 0.333...)) 6 * (4 / 0.666...) 6 * 6 = 36
Multiplication first:
(6 * 4) / (2 * 3) / 9 24 / 6 / 9
Here the path divides again, we can do the left division or right division first.
Left first: (24 / 6) / 9 4 / 9 = 0.444... Right side first: 24 / (6 / 9) 24 / 0.666... = 36
And finally division first:
6 * (4 / 2) * (3 / 9) 6 * 2 * 0.333... 12 * 0.333.. = 4
It's ambiguous which one of these is correct. Hence the best method we have for "correct" is left to right.
I stand corrected
-
on that note, can we please have parentheses in language. i keep making ambiguous sentences
This is why grammar is important, and "grammar nazis" are the only good kind of nazis.
-
G U I N U S.
I know it's probably a typo, but I'm enjoying it.
It's jeenyus you moran!
All I can envision with that alternative is Whoopi Goldberg with a very fanciful hat serving drinks in space.
-
on that note, can we please have parentheses in language. i keep making ambiguous sentences
My language teachers always told me it was bad form to use too much or even to nest parenthesis...
Then I found lisp...
-
So order of operations is hard?
Next they're going to have an epic debate on whether work done by the system is positive or negative and are all going to feel really smart and passionate about it. Like one of those Science vs Religion debate clubs from the 2000s
-
The same priority operations can be done in any order without affecting the result, that's why they can be same priority and don't need an explicit order.
6 × 4 ÷ 2 × 3 ÷ 9 evaluates the same regardless of order. Can you provide a counter example?
Another person already replied using your equation, but I felt the need to reply with a simpler one as well that shows it:
9-1+3=?
Subtraction first:
8+3=11Addition first:
9-4=5 -
100% with you. "Left to right" as far as I can tell only exists to make otherwise "unsolvable" problems a kind of official solution. I personally feel like it is a bodge, and I would rather the correct solution for such a problem to be undefined.
It's so we don't have to spam brackets everywhere
9+2-1+6-4+7-3+5=
Becomes
((((((9+2)-1)+6)-4)+7)-3)+5=
That's just clutter for no good reason when we can just say if it doesn't have parentheses it's left to right. Having a default evaluation order makes sense and means we only need parentheses when we want to deviate from the norm.
-
The issue normally with these "trick" questions is the ambiguous nature of that division sign (not so much a problem here) or people not knowing to just go left to right when all operators are of the same priority. A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication, when it actually has the same priority. Someone should have included some parenthesis in PEDMAS aka. PE(DM)(AS)
Another common issue is thinking "parentheses go first" and then beginning by solving the operation beside them (mostly multiplication). The point being that what's inside the parentheses goes first, not what's beside them.
-
Knowing basic arithmetic does not mean you know Math, and the fact you so hung up about this trivial aspect says a lot about you. Additionally, you express yourself like a boomer.
Hung up lol
See what you want to see ignorant one. Funny af.
-
Except it does matter. I left some examples for another post with multiplication and division, I'll give you some addition and subtraction to see order matter with those operations as well.
Let's take:
1 + 2 - 3 + 4Addition first:
(1 + 2) - (3 + 4)
3 - 7 = -4Subtraction first:
1 + (2 - 3) + 4
1 + (-1) + 4 = 4Right to left:
1 + (2 - (3 + 4))
1 + (2 - 7)
1 + (-5) = -4Left to right:
((1 + 2) - 3) + 4
(3 - 3) + 4 = 4Edit:
You can argue that, for example, the addition first could be(1 + 2) + (-3 + 4)
in which case it does end up as 4, but in my opinion that's another ambiguous case.Oh, but of course the statement changes if you add parentheses. Basically, you’re changing the effective numbers that are being used, because the parentheses act as containers with a given value (you even showed the effective numbers in your examples).
Get this : + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1
You can change the result several times by choosing where you want to put the parentheses. However, the order of operations of same priority inside a container (parentheses) does not change the resulting value of the container.
In the example, there were no parentheses, so no ambiguity (there wouldn’t be any ambiguity with parentheses either, the correct way of calculating would just change), and I don’t think you can add “ambiguity” by adding parentheses — you’re just changing the effective expression to be evaluated.
By the way, this is the reason why I absolutely overuse parentheses in my engineering code. It can be redundant, but at least I am SURE that it is going to follow the order that I wanted.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Ah, yes. It's only for genius.
-
My language teachers always told me it was bad form to use too much or even to nest parenthesis...
Then I found lisp...
Lost In Stupid Parenthesis.
-
I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous so people will fight over it and raise the level of interaction
I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous
None of them are ambiguous. They all have only 1 correct answer, just like this one only has 1 correct answer. They all test if people remember the order of operations rules. Those who got it wrong, don't.
-
I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous
None of them are ambiguous. They all have only 1 correct answer, just like this one only has 1 correct answer. They all test if people remember the order of operations rules. Those who got it wrong, don't.
Lmao here we go
-
No, it should simply be "Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, addition."
A division is defined as a multiplication, and a substraction is defined as an addition.
I am so confused everytime I see people arguing about this, as this is basic real number arithmetics that every kid in my country learns at 12 yo, when moving on from the simplified version you learn in elementary school.
A division is defined as a multiplication
No it isn't. Multiplication is defined as repeated addition. Division isn't repeated subtraction. They just happen to have opposite effects if you treat the quotient as being the result of dividing.
-
That's because (strictly speaking) they aren't teaching math. They're teaching "tricks" to solve equations easier, which can lead to more confusion.
Like the PEMDAS thing that's being discussed here. There's no such thing as "order of operations" in math, but it's easier to teach by assuming that there is.
Edit:
To the people downvoting: I want to hear your opinions. Do you think I'm wrong? If so, why?they aren’t teaching math.
Yes we are. Adults forgetting it is another matter altogether.
There’s no such thing as “order of operations” in math
Yes there is!
Do you think I’m wrong?
No, I know you're wrong.
If so, why?
If you don't solve binary operators before unary operators you get wrong answers. 2+3x4=14, not 20. 3x4=3+3+3+3 by definition
-
US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did.
What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS? And what’s the non-lazy/superior way?
What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS?
Nothing. Only people who don't know what they're talking about say that.
-
A division is defined as a multiplication
No it isn't. Multiplication is defined as repeated addition. Division isn't repeated subtraction. They just happen to have opposite effects if you treat the quotient as being the result of dividing.
Yes, it is. The division of a by b in the set of real numbers and the set of rational numbers (which are, de facto, the default sets used in most professions) is defined as the multiplication of a by the multiplicative inverse of b. Alternative definitions are also based on a multiplication.
That's why divisions are called an auxilliary operation.
-
Researchers finds high levels of dangerous air particles(PM2.5) in air near electric vehicle fast charging stations.
Technology1
-
-
Microsoft Pivots, Offers Free Windows 10 Updates after End-Of-Life Deadline with a Strategic Catch - WinBuzzer
Technology1
-
Meta rolled back protections. Now hate is surging - What we're seeing: More hate, more fear, less freedom.
Technology1
-
-
-
Most of us will leave behind a large ‘digital legacy’ when we die. Here’s how to plan what happens to it
Technology1
-