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A fake Facebook event disguised as a math problem has been one of its top posts for 6 months

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  • The issue normally with these "trick" questions is the ambiguous nature of that division sign (not so much a problem here) or people not knowing to just go left to right when all operators are of the same priority. A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication, when it actually has the same priority. Someone should have included some parenthesis in PEDMAS aka. PE(DM)(AS) 😄

    Another common issue is thinking "parentheses go first" and then beginning by solving the operation beside them (mostly multiplication). The point being that what's inside the parentheses goes first, not what's beside them.

  • Knowing basic arithmetic does not mean you know Math, and the fact you so hung up about this trivial aspect says a lot about you. Additionally, you express yourself like a boomer.

    Hung up lol

    See what you want to see ignorant one. Funny af.

  • Except it does matter. I left some examples for another post with multiplication and division, I'll give you some addition and subtraction to see order matter with those operations as well.

    Let's take:
    1 + 2 - 3 + 4

    Addition first:
    (1 + 2) - (3 + 4)
    3 - 7 = -4

    Subtraction first:
    1 + (2 - 3) + 4
    1 + (-1) + 4 = 4

    Right to left:
    1 + (2 - (3 + 4))
    1 + (2 - 7)
    1 + (-5) = -4

    Left to right:
    ((1 + 2) - 3) + 4
    (3 - 3) + 4 = 4

    Edit:
    You can argue that, for example, the addition first could be (1 + 2) + (-3 + 4) in which case it does end up as 4, but in my opinion that's another ambiguous case.

    Oh, but of course the statement changes if you add parentheses. Basically, you’re changing the effective numbers that are being used, because the parentheses act as containers with a given value (you even showed the effective numbers in your examples).

    Get this : + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1

    You can change the result several times by choosing where you want to put the parentheses. However, the order of operations of same priority inside a container (parentheses) does not change the resulting value of the container.

    In the example, there were no parentheses, so no ambiguity (there wouldn’t be any ambiguity with parentheses either, the correct way of calculating would just change), and I don’t think you can add “ambiguity” by adding parentheses — you’re just changing the effective expression to be evaluated.

    By the way, this is the reason why I absolutely overuse parentheses in my engineering code. It can be redundant, but at least I am SURE that it is going to follow the order that I wanted.

  • This post did not contain any content.

    Ah, yes. It's only for genius.

  • My language teachers always told me it was bad form to use too much or even to nest parenthesis...

    Then I found lisp...

    Lost In Stupid Parenthesis.

  • I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous so people will fight over it and raise the level of interaction

    I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous

    None of them are ambiguous. They all have only 1 correct answer, just like this one only has 1 correct answer. They all test if people remember the order of operations rules. Those who got it wrong, don't.

  • I like the version where these problems are made purposefully ambiguous

    None of them are ambiguous. They all have only 1 correct answer, just like this one only has 1 correct answer. They all test if people remember the order of operations rules. Those who got it wrong, don't.

    Lmao here we go

  • No, it should simply be "Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, addition."

    A division is defined as a multiplication, and a substraction is defined as an addition.

    I am so confused everytime I see people arguing about this, as this is basic real number arithmetics that every kid in my country learns at 12 yo, when moving on from the simplified version you learn in elementary school.

    A division is defined as a multiplication

    No it isn't. Multiplication is defined as repeated addition. Division isn't repeated subtraction. They just happen to have opposite effects if you treat the quotient as being the result of dividing.

  • That's because (strictly speaking) they aren't teaching math. They're teaching "tricks" to solve equations easier, which can lead to more confusion.

    Like the PEMDAS thing that's being discussed here. There's no such thing as "order of operations" in math, but it's easier to teach by assuming that there is.

    Edit:
    To the people downvoting: I want to hear your opinions. Do you think I'm wrong? If so, why?

    they aren’t teaching math.

    Yes we are. Adults forgetting it is another matter altogether.

    There’s no such thing as “order of operations” in math

    Yes there is! 😂

    Do you think I’m wrong?

    No, I know you're wrong.

    If so, why?

    If you don't solve binary operators before unary operators you get wrong answers. 2+3x4=14, not 20. 3x4=3+3+3+3 by definition

  • US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did.

    What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS? And what’s the non-lazy/superior way?

    What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS?

    Nothing. Only people who don't know what they're talking about say that.

  • A division is defined as a multiplication

    No it isn't. Multiplication is defined as repeated addition. Division isn't repeated subtraction. They just happen to have opposite effects if you treat the quotient as being the result of dividing.

    Yes, it is. The division of a by b in the set of real numbers and the set of rational numbers (which are, de facto, the default sets used in most professions) is defined as the multiplication of a by the multiplicative inverse of b. Alternative definitions are also based on a multiplication.

    That's why divisions are called an auxilliary operation.

  • Those two things are memorisation tasks. Maths is not about memorisation.

    You are not supposed to remember that the area of a triangle is a * h / 2, you're supposed to understand why it's the case. You're supposed to be able to show that any triangle that can possibly exist is half the area of the rectangle it's stuck in: Start with the trivial case (right-angled triangle), then move on to more complicated cases. If you've understood that once, there is no reason to remember anything because you can derive the formula at a moment's notice.

    All maths can be understood and derived like that. The names of the colours, their ordering, the names of the planets and how they're ordered, they're arbitrary, they have no rhyme or reason, they need to be memorised if you want to recall them. Maths doesn't, instead it dies when you apply memorisation.

    Ein Anfänger (der) Gitarre Hat Elan. There, that's the Guitar strings in German. Why do I know that? Because my music theory knowledge sucks. I can't apply it, music is all vibes to me but I still need a way to match the strings to what the tuner is displaying. You should never learn music theory from me, just as you shouldn't learn maths from a teacher who can't prove a * h / 2, or thinks it's unimportant whether you can prove it.

    Maths is not about memorisation

    It is for ROTE learners.

    You are not supposed to remember that the area of a triangle is a * h / 2

    Yes you are. A lot of students get the wrong answer when they forget the half.

    you’re supposed to understand why it’s the case

    Constructivist learners can do so, ROTE learners it doesn't matter. As long as they all know how to do Maths it doesn't matter if they understand it or not.

    You’re supposed to be able to show that any triangle that can possibly exist is half the area of the rectangle it’s stuck in

    No they're not.

    If you’ve understood that once, there is no reason to remember anything because you can derive the formula at a moment’s notice.

    And if you haven't understood it then there is a reason to remember it.

    you can derive the formula at a moment’s notice

    Students aren't expected to be able to do that.

    All maths can be understood and derived like that

    It can be by Constructivist learners, not ROTE learners.

    The names of the colours, their ordering, the names of the planets and how they’re ordered, they’re arbitrary

    No they're not. Colours are in spectrum order, the planets are in order from the sun.

    Maths doesn’t, instead it dies when you apply memorisation

    A very substantial chunk of the population does just fine with having memorised Maths.

  • What fundamental property of the universe says that

    6 + 4 / 2 is 8 instead of 5?

    6 + 4 / 2 is 8 instead of 5?

    The fundamental property of Maths that you have to solve binary operators before unary operators or you end up with wrong answers.

  • Nothing. And that's why people don't write equations like that: You either see

         4
    6 + ---
         2
    

    or

     6 + 4
    -------
       2
    

    If you wrote 6 + 4 / 2 in a paper you'd get reviewers complaining that it's ambiguous, if you want it to be on one line write (6+4) / 2 or 6 + (4/2) or 6 + ⁴⁄₂ or even ½(6 + 4) Working mathematicians never came up with PEMDAS, which disambiguates it without parenthesis, US teachers did. Noone else does it that way because it does not, in the slightest, aid readability.

    And that’s why people don’t write equations like that

    Says someone who clearly hasn't looked in any Maths textbooks

    If you wrote 6 + 4 / 2 in a paper you’d get reviewers complaining that it’s ambiguous

    Only if their Maths was very poor. #MathsIsNeverAmbiguous

    Working mathematicians never came up with PEMDAS

    Yes they did.

    which disambiguates it without parenthesis

    It was never ambiguous to begin with.

    Noone else does it that way

    Says someone who has never looked in a non-U.S. Maths textbooks - BIDMAS, BODMAS, BEDMAS, all textbooks have one variation or another.

  • You might be smart, but you’re still wrong about the importance of order of operations; especially in algebra.

    As far as teachers go, you’re being a dick by generalizing all (US) teachers are lazy and do not understand math.

    Pro tip: opinions are like assholes; you too have one, and yes it too stinks.

    You might be smart

    Smart-arse more like. A serial troll who doesn't actually know what they're talking about.

  • This kind of problem falls under "communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood". Use parenthesis and the problem goes away.

    This kind of problem falls under “communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood”.

    No it doesn't. It falls under adults forgetting the rules of Maths.

    Use parenthesis and the problem goes away

    There is no problem, other than adults who have forgotten the rules.

  • You understand that gen x starts around 1965, right? Your stat says they're mostly getting fucked too.

    You understand that gen x starts around 1965, right?

    10 years earlier than that actually. Johnny Rotten, Billy Idol, etc. The U.S. came late to the party and started using their own definition.

  • For me it's the arguments when there is a parentheses but no operator (otherwise known as implied multiplication) in these baits e.g. 15 + 2(4 - 2)

    If you don't know operator orders I have given up long ago, but I have seen a few lengthy discussions about this

    For me it’s the arguments when there is a parentheses but no operator (otherwise known as implied multiplication)

    No, it's known as Factorised Terms/Products, solved via The Distributive Law, a(b+c)=(ab+ac). "implied multiplication" is a made up rule by people who have forgotten the actual rules, and often they get it wrong (because, having wrongly called it "multiplication", they then wrongly give it the precedence of multiplication, not brackets).

  • Oh yeah, that's a fun one.

    Where I live, this would be considered juxtaposition, at least by uni professors and scientific community, so 2(4-2) isn't the same as 2×(4-2), even though on their own they're equal.

    This way, equations such as 15/2(4-2) end up with a definite solution.

    So,

    15/2(4-2) = 3.75

    While

    15/2×(4-2) = 15

    Usually, however, it is obvious even without assuming juxtaposition because you can look at previous operations. Not to mention that it's most common with variables (Eg. "2x/3y").

    Where I live, this would be considered juxtaposition

    Not just where you live, everywhere, in Maths textbooks. Adults forgetting the rules (and unqualified U.S. teachers not teaching what's in the textbooks) is another matter altogether.

  • I never understood how people couldn’t understand basic PEMDAS/BEDMAS/Whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it.

    There's no "whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it", the US is the only country using it, and only up to high school. At least I'm not seeing any papers coming out of the US relying on it so at some point they're dropping it and do what everyone else is doing: Write equations such that you don't need a left-to-right rule to disambiguate things. Also, using multiplication by juxtaposition (2x + 4x^2^).

    There’s no “whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it”

    Yes there is. BEDMAS, BODMAS, and BIDMAS

    the US is the only country using it

    No they're not.

    at some point they’re dropping it

    No, at no point do the order of operations rules ever get dropped

    using multiplication by juxtaposition (2x + 4x2)

    They're called Terms/Products.