Volkswagen Planning Subscription-Based Horsepower Upgrades
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We get it; you drive a VW
No I was using Mitsubishi for many years, but unfortunately their quality declined.
Now I drive an old Opel, but currently I wouldn't buy anything from Stelantis. -
That schematic is basically worthless, first it's "per car", with no mention of average age or mileage.
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
But Mercedes also on average drive longer than most other cars, because people who drive a lot tend to prefer Mercedes more.
VW only ranking a couple places above Chrysler is laughable. There is no way that can be right.
Also Audi ranking below VW is ridiculous. Audi is to VW somewhat what Lexus is to Toyota.
Something is definitely off with that chart.But I do not deny that Hyundai may have improved enough to be as good or maybe even better than VW, What I questioned was how they could have that reputation already few years after they clearly sucked on quality. Being reasonably good now, is exactly as expected though. Because when they were bad over a decade ago, they were so bad there are probably very few left on the roads. It was not just something that needed to be fixed bad, it was very much also end of life for the vehicle bad.
I skimmed the article to find the methodology behind the numbers, but couldn't find it.
The study, now in its 35th year,
That indicates my previous point, they don't account for age, it's easy to stay "average" if your cars are scrapped after a few years. It also explains the poor position of Mercedes.
Here for instance Volvo has a longer life span on average than Toyota. Toyota are good cars, but they are generally not built to last as long as Audi or Mercedes.
I bet you don't see as many 30+ year old Toyota as you do Mercedes.Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
Most taxi drivers here drive a Toyota Prius, because they're incredibly reliable and get great fuel economy.
The only people who drive Mercedes here are rich people who like the brand, or people who need a 15 passenger van, because there aren't many options and it's better than a Ford or Chevy.
The only people who get BMW and Audi are car enthusiasts and rich people who like the respective brands and are willing to pay for the privilege. The only people who get VW are those who are attracted by the low prices,(can get a Jetta for ~$20k because nobody wants them) and later get screwed on repairs. I almost never see VW here, they have a terrible reputation, which is amazing because everyone loved the old Beetles.
But sure, if you don't like the stats I showed, provide your own and prove me wrong. Sales figures won't convince me, repairability stats do.
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Vw doesnt make better EVs than hyundai lol, their range is worse, their charge curve is worse, their software is worse, what they have is better brand still, people are sleeping on Hyundai/Kia even though they offer better equipped cars for cheaper and with better reliability and warranty.
That's completely okay with me. i get to buy these as used cars at extremely cut price.
Go test drive a VW id.3 from 2022, I did, it's a 3 year old car and everything is creaking
That’s completely okay with me. i get to buy these as used cars at extremely cut price.
I don't know if you saw I posted earlier, but I don't dislike Hyundai, I'm even considering a second hand Hyundai for exactly that reason.
The Skoda Enyaq which is also VW group and based on the VW MEB platform is very well equipped as standard. I'd say that's similar to Hyundai.
I cant think of anything that is extra on the Enyaq, that isn't also extra on the Hyundai.
Also the small 60 kW Enyaq is very similar in range to a 64 kW Kona, and that's despite it's 400 kg heavier.
I bet there are many ways to compare, but the VW drive train is very efficient, so it generally manages to match Hyundai despite being heavier.
But you need to compare similar cars, you can't compare Sport Sedan to SUV, and expect the SUV to be equally efficient at Autobahn speed.Go test drive a VW id.3 from 2022, I did, it’s a 3 year old car and everything is creaking
That's anecdotal, but I agree it shouldn't do that. Maybe it has been driven frequently on bad roads?
Last place I lived, we had a 1km dirt road to our house, that takes a toll. -
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
Most taxi drivers here drive a Toyota Prius, because they're incredibly reliable and get great fuel economy.
The only people who drive Mercedes here are rich people who like the brand, or people who need a 15 passenger van, because there aren't many options and it's better than a Ford or Chevy.
The only people who get BMW and Audi are car enthusiasts and rich people who like the respective brands and are willing to pay for the privilege. The only people who get VW are those who are attracted by the low prices,(can get a Jetta for ~$20k because nobody wants them) and later get screwed on repairs. I almost never see VW here, they have a terrible reputation, which is amazing because everyone loved the old Beetles.
But sure, if you don't like the stats I showed, provide your own and prove me wrong. Sales figures won't convince me, repairability stats do.
Yes we've seen the beetle in many American movies, and every hippie group with respect for themselves drive a Volkswagen Bus. (according to Hollywood)
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Our cars aren't selling... Hmm.. Should we make them last longer? No. Should we make the interior out of anything except hard plastic? No. Should we make our cars easier to repair and not have even the most basic shit require specialized tools? No. I got it! Subscriptions for basic shit that gauges the few customers still buying our shit!I understand your point, but have you driven a VW in the past decade? They are reliable, relatively easy to repair and have comfortable interiors that aren't with "hard plastic." Perhaps you've confused VW with Ford?
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Yes we've seen the beetle in many American movies, and every hippie group with respect for themselves drive a Volkswagen Bus. (according to Hollywood)
Yup. They weren't particularly reliable, but they were cheap and parts were easily available.
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That schematic is basically worthless, first it's "per car", with no mention of average age or mileage.
Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
But Mercedes also on average drive longer than most other cars, because people who drive a lot tend to prefer Mercedes more.
VW only ranking a couple places above Chrysler is laughable. There is no way that can be right.
Also Audi ranking below VW is ridiculous. Audi is to VW somewhat what Lexus is to Toyota.
Something is definitely off with that chart.But I do not deny that Hyundai may have improved enough to be as good or maybe even better than VW, What I questioned was how they could have that reputation already few years after they clearly sucked on quality. Being reasonably good now, is exactly as expected though. Because when they were bad over a decade ago, they were so bad there are probably very few left on the roads. It was not just something that needed to be fixed bad, it was very much also end of life for the vehicle bad.
I skimmed the article to find the methodology behind the numbers, but couldn't find it.
The study, now in its 35th year,
That indicates my previous point, they don't account for age, it's easy to stay "average" if your cars are scrapped after a few years. It also explains the poor position of Mercedes.
Here for instance Volvo has a longer life span on average than Toyota. Toyota are good cars, but they are generally not built to last as long as Audi or Mercedes.
I bet you don't see as many 30+ year old Toyota as you do Mercedes.Methodology is mileage divided by money spent on repairs
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Yup. They weren't particularly reliable, but they were cheap and parts were easily available.
Funny, because the Beetle was very reliable and durable here in Europe, both in cold Scandinavian countries, and hot south European countries, and for driving the demanding roads in the alps. And here they were everywhere even more than a decade after production stopped. Very very durable and reliable cars. Also beating way more expensive cars in how old they got on average.
What they were not was well equipped with extras, or fast or powerful or particularly comfortable to drive, and they were also noisy.
But to say they weren't reliable?????Did USA get some sort of second rate Beetle cars compared to Europe? Here we called it the asphalt bubble. I even have a neighbor who owns a late 70's beetle today, which still drives absolutely fine! Still with minimal maintenance!
I could understand if you were from Brazil, they had their own VW factory early on, and IDK if quality is the same on those? Maybe USA got VW from Brazil?
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Methodology is mileage divided by money spent on repairs
That's actually a good way to measure for similar cars. But still a luxury car is obviously more expensive to repair, and that does not make it unreliable.
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Mercedes is no doubt among the absolute most reliable cars you can get, most Taxi drivers here use Mercedes for that reason.
Most taxi drivers here drive a Toyota Prius, because they're incredibly reliable and get great fuel economy.
The only people who drive Mercedes here are rich people who like the brand, or people who need a 15 passenger van, because there aren't many options and it's better than a Ford or Chevy.
The only people who get BMW and Audi are car enthusiasts and rich people who like the respective brands and are willing to pay for the privilege. The only people who get VW are those who are attracted by the low prices,(can get a Jetta for ~$20k because nobody wants them) and later get screwed on repairs. I almost never see VW here, they have a terrible reputation, which is amazing because everyone loved the old Beetles.
But sure, if you don't like the stats I showed, provide your own and prove me wrong. Sales figures won't convince me, repairability stats do.
Here the picture is very different, admittedly this is a German study, but by TÜV which is a very reputable company, the biggest company responsible for mandatory car safety checks at periodic intervals.
Stor undersøgelse: Her er bilmærkerne med flest fejl
Vi er Europas største webshop for brugte reservedele fra autoophug i hele Europa.
(www.autoparts24.dk)
VW was never comparable to Toyota.
VW actually beats even Toyota, it's a couple of years old. But I doubt this has changed much.
This is a very solid stat, for a big country, and the checks are mandatory. So not dependent on brand methodology.
For instance here Tesla is said to be the cheapest car to maintain after purchase and under warranty. But they do a piss poor job, so a whopping third of the cars fail their first mandatory safety check after 4 years. (after that it's every 2nd year). No other brand is even close to as bad.
VW is among the more expensive, because they have very strict service requirements while under warranty. But I guarantee your chance of passing mandatory safety check is similar to the German, about 2% failure, compared to 33% failure for Tesla. The failures of Tesla are even pretty serious, like steering and brakes! While for other cars Steering is an unheard of failure.In the study Tesla 3 is also the worst after 2-3 years, with 14.7% of the cars having a security problem!
So being cheapest is absolutely not a sign of being reliable!There are many ways to make the stats, but the above study is in my opinion much more reliable than what you showed that is based on price, and AFAIK not based on mandatory safety checks.
Unfortunately we don't have the same amount of data here. So where Hyundai is is unknown, but definitely VW ranks clearly as #1.
As I strongly suspected the study you showed does not give an accurate picture of reliability.
It was just so obvious. The study I show is based on mandatory safety checks, that is equal for all cars.
And in that much more reliable and comparable study VW wins. -
I understand your point, but have you driven a VW in the past decade? They are reliable, relatively easy to repair and have comfortable interiors that aren't with "hard plastic." Perhaps you've confused VW with Ford?
Ford is even worse than VW, but VW is overpriced shit.
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That's actually a good way to measure for similar cars. But still a luxury car is obviously more expensive to repair, and that does not make it unreliable.
I hear what you're saying, and I don't know what else they might do for the formula. I just knew from somewhere back in my head that that's the basic way they do it
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Sounds like a good reason to skip buying any car warranty going forward since I'll be attempting to void that shit almost immediately.
Bad business decisions all around.
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I understand your point, but have you driven a VW in the past decade? They are reliable, relatively easy to repair and have comfortable interiors that aren't with "hard plastic." Perhaps you've confused VW with Ford?
Yeah. I think my car has a pretty decent build overall but the (I shit you not) 14 recalls ive had to bring it in for ranging from door handle replacements, firmware updates, back hatch issues makes me raise an eyebrow to it. I let a few stack up before I bring it in because I never notice any issue before or after, but better to get the free service than not.
Evidence strongly counters my own feelings on the matter.
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I hear what you're saying, and I don't know what else they might do for the formula. I just knew from somewhere back in my head that that's the basic way they do it
Turns out that when the tests are mandatory safety checks performed by an independent third party, a study shows VW is the clear winner.
Stor undersøgelse: Her er bilmærkerne med flest fejl
Vi er Europas største webshop for brugte reservedele fra autoophug i hele Europa.
(www.autoparts24.dk)
Here Tesla is claimed to be the cheapest to maintain, but they also have the worst failure rate of any brand here in Denmark at similar safety checks as in Germany. Although the failure rate is even higher here with 33% which used to be completely unheard of.
So cheap maintenance does not mean high reliability.
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Funny, because the Beetle was very reliable and durable here in Europe, both in cold Scandinavian countries, and hot south European countries, and for driving the demanding roads in the alps. And here they were everywhere even more than a decade after production stopped. Very very durable and reliable cars. Also beating way more expensive cars in how old they got on average.
What they were not was well equipped with extras, or fast or powerful or particularly comfortable to drive, and they were also noisy.
But to say they weren't reliable?????Did USA get some sort of second rate Beetle cars compared to Europe? Here we called it the asphalt bubble. I even have a neighbor who owns a late 70's beetle today, which still drives absolutely fine! Still with minimal maintenance!
I could understand if you were from Brazil, they had their own VW factory early on, and IDK if quality is the same on those? Maybe USA got VW from Brazil?
The thing about the early VWs, like the Beetle, was they couldn't pass the updated safety standards the US passed in the early '70s: safety glass, reinforced cabin, etc.
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I understand your point, but have you driven a VW in the past decade? They are reliable, relatively easy to repair and have comfortable interiors that aren't with "hard plastic." Perhaps you've confused VW with Ford?
Does "relatively easy" mean in comparison to modern cars, and not easily repairable older cars? I don't follow cars but if it's anything like other tech then it's soon to be crippled by part tying.
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Turns out that when the tests are mandatory safety checks performed by an independent third party, a study shows VW is the clear winner.
Stor undersøgelse: Her er bilmærkerne med flest fejl
Vi er Europas største webshop for brugte reservedele fra autoophug i hele Europa.
(www.autoparts24.dk)
Here Tesla is claimed to be the cheapest to maintain, but they also have the worst failure rate of any brand here in Denmark at similar safety checks as in Germany. Although the failure rate is even higher here with 33% which used to be completely unheard of.
So cheap maintenance does not mean high reliability.
That's not a great method either. Safety is not reliability
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The thing about the early VWs, like the Beetle, was they couldn't pass the updated safety standards the US passed in the early '70s: safety glass, reinforced cabin, etc.
Yes, but that doesn't make the car unreliable.
Also funny story is that car safety is abhorrent in USA today compared to Europe. Especially with American pickup trucks.
USA was absolutely in the front on research on for instance seat belts, but Europe made them mandatory to have and wear first, because in USA it was delayed because they were afraid it would slow down car sales! (AFAIK)
Crash tests were expensive, so I bet that started in USA first too, because American car companies had way more money than in Europe.Still how did the Cybertruck pass? We've seen the crash test of that, and it's an absolute killer car for the driver in a crash. A broken neck is almost guaranteed!
There is no way Cyber Truck would pass car safety standards in Europe! -
That’s completely okay with me. i get to buy these as used cars at extremely cut price.
I don't know if you saw I posted earlier, but I don't dislike Hyundai, I'm even considering a second hand Hyundai for exactly that reason.
The Skoda Enyaq which is also VW group and based on the VW MEB platform is very well equipped as standard. I'd say that's similar to Hyundai.
I cant think of anything that is extra on the Enyaq, that isn't also extra on the Hyundai.
Also the small 60 kW Enyaq is very similar in range to a 64 kW Kona, and that's despite it's 400 kg heavier.
I bet there are many ways to compare, but the VW drive train is very efficient, so it generally manages to match Hyundai despite being heavier.
But you need to compare similar cars, you can't compare Sport Sedan to SUV, and expect the SUV to be equally efficient at Autobahn speed.Go test drive a VW id.3 from 2022, I did, it’s a 3 year old car and everything is creaking
That's anecdotal, but I agree it shouldn't do that. Maybe it has been driven frequently on bad roads?
Last place I lived, we had a 1km dirt road to our house, that takes a toll.Not anecdotal at all man, I specifically tried it because I have heard that they have issues.
https://www.vw-id3.com/body_general_body_repairs_interior_trim_noise_insulation_front_door_trims-630.html
https://www.speakev.com/threads/id3-with-rattling-sound-from-dash.168559/
https://www.vwidtalk.com/threads/rattle-in-passenger-front.13147/
https://www.id3forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=713I also watch a lot of used car content, Squeaking/rattling was the norm on the Skoda Kodiaq, it's the norm on used Superbs.
