Tesla sales plunge 40% in Europe as Chinese EV rival BYD's triple
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I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
Deleted by author
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US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
LOL what? What makes you say Tesla "failed"? They're an incredibly large and profitable company.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
I did no such thing. You are trying to paint what I said that way as some sort of gotcha. Many countries have EV subsidies. None of them compare to that of those from the CCP.
The US, for example, has paid approx. $1B in clean vehicle tax credits for electric and hybrid vehicles originating from around the world. China? $230B.
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That's per Capita, China has like 30 billion more citizens.
Correct and correct.
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What goalpost did I move? You said they’d be built with slave labor which means they’ll still be cheaper, right? And in the meantime we decarbonize huge segments of the global economy.
Don’t be mad just cause western countries wanted to take advantage of slave labor as usual and are getting bitten in the ass because of their greed, or that West Taiwan is doing it better.
What goalpost did I move?
This one:
Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate
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Correct and correct.
So then you agree you were wrong...?
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What goalpost did I move?
This one:
Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate
I never wrote that.
But if a side effect of utterly dominating the west in decarbonizing has the side effect of saving the climate I’m not gonna complain.
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I never wrote that.
But if a side effect of utterly dominating the west in decarbonizing has the side effect of saving the climate I’m not gonna complain.
I never wrote that.
No, but you did jump into that conversation. If you were trying to have some other argument, you were arguing with a strawman.
But if a side effect of utterly dominating the west in decarbonizing has the side effect of saving the climate I’m not gonna complain.
There is no "saving the climate". There is only China dominating the industry and then pricing them out of the hands of common people, because they have no competition.
Another effect is destroying the global economy and further diminishing the wages of workers in the US and around the world. But hey, maybe you like being poor.
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You're moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for "saving the climate".
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
Not really? Still saving the climate
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...you know that comment has zero reference to the Chinese market, right? You realize the CCP can subsidize the construction of vehicles that are exported out of China, right?
Then you worded it poorly, also doesn't matter if it's subsidized since as I said, they are hit by tarrifs in the EU so they don't undercut the market, but since you seem to be unable to show complex thought processes I am done with this conversation.
Ps. nice job with your totally not obvious downvoting with your alt account.
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CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn't be any surprise they're selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I'm immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
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FSD tomorrow, amirite
Delivered via Tesla semi
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So then you agree you were wrong...?
No. Your argument is for fools. The argument that a country with a population of 345 million produces less carbon dioxide to pollute the planet’s atmosphere with than a country of 1.42 billion people is nonsense and contributes nothing to any conversation at all. The per capita comparison is what matters, but it’s not used by the people that just really want us to believe “China == bad”. Seems like they’re successful at it based on this interaction, sadly.
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US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
LOL what? What makes you say Tesla "failed"? They're an incredibly large and profitable company.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
I did no such thing. You are trying to paint what I said that way as some sort of gotcha. Many countries have EV subsidies. None of them compare to that of those from the CCP.
The US, for example, has paid approx. $1B in clean vehicle tax credits for electric and hybrid vehicles originating from around the world. China? $230B.
Chinese EV manufacturers are taking teslas lunch and it is losing relevance.
The US, for example, has paid approx. $1B in clean vehicle tax credits. China? $230B.
Yes US only provided tesla with 1b
Are stupid or poorly educated? Either confirms you are not having an earnest discussion here. Got some tsla stock? Hehe
Look at the entire package of state aid provided to Tesla over last 20 years. Starting with those loans.
Also, note that tesla profitability relies on sale of regulatory credits which is state aid in of itself.
China beat us in solar and electric vehicle, us can't even catch it is that bad.
Musl ruining reputation of the brand don't hell either.
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Not really? Still saving the climate
At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result.
It cannot be both. Either:
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CCP is subsidizing EVs to "save the climate" and they will stay cheap and subsidized forever because the communist dictator is actually just a totally super nice guy who cares about the global climate.
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CCP is subsidizing EVs to dominate the global market, after which prices will go sky high and economies around the world (including yours) will suffer, because they've driven out all of the competition.
Which one do you think it is?
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I never wrote that.
No, but you did jump into that conversation. If you were trying to have some other argument, you were arguing with a strawman.
But if a side effect of utterly dominating the west in decarbonizing has the side effect of saving the climate I’m not gonna complain.
There is no "saving the climate". There is only China dominating the industry and then pricing them out of the hands of common people, because they have no competition.
Another effect is destroying the global economy and further diminishing the wages of workers in the US and around the world. But hey, maybe you like being poor.
Good. I hate the global economy.
And maybe if the western countries had a lick of sense it wouldn’t end up this way. But we got addicted to cheap plastic crap and let the Chinese leapfrog us.
Because if we’d left decarbonization to the west it would never have happened.
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Then you worded it poorly, also doesn't matter if it's subsidized since as I said, they are hit by tarrifs in the EU so they don't undercut the market, but since you seem to be unable to show complex thought processes I am done with this conversation.
Ps. nice job with your totally not obvious downvoting with your alt account.
I didn't word anything poorly, you just read it poorly.
doesn't matter if it's subsidized since as I said, they are hit by tarrifs in the EU so they don't undercut the market
It does matter because tariffs do not even come close to making them even. Seriously, have you considered at all the economics of this? Do you think the Chinese are such fucking savants that they're able to produce these cars basically for fucking free?
nice job with your totally not obvious downvoting with your alt account.
Oh, honey...
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Not one more penny for this Nazi!
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Yeah, I'm not engaging with someone who deals in personal insults and bad faith arguments. Goodbye.
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No. Your argument is for fools. The argument that a country with a population of 345 million produces less carbon dioxide to pollute the planet’s atmosphere with than a country of 1.42 billion people is nonsense and contributes nothing to any conversation at all. The per capita comparison is what matters, but it’s not used by the people that just really want us to believe “China == bad”. Seems like they’re successful at it based on this interaction, sadly.
Oh okay so basically you were wrong but it doesn't matter. And I've been duped into hating a communist dictatorship that censors all public discourse and has exploited slave wages for the last several decades. Got it.
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Good. I hate the global economy.
And maybe if the western countries had a lick of sense it wouldn’t end up this way. But we got addicted to cheap plastic crap and let the Chinese leapfrog us.
Because if we’d left decarbonization to the west it would never have happened.
Good. I hate the global economy.
I have no response to this.
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