So now you're backtracking and disagreeing that it isn't because girl's brains develop faster, but because the education system is actually better for girls than boys? Oh, right, so why didn't you write that in the first place.

I suspect feminist messaging appeals to women because they are sick of the patriarchy, not because they are programmed by marketing agencies. The fuck are you on about.

Lol. Aren't you a good feminist. Throwing tired phrases around like "they are sick of the patriarchy", yawn. You're the sexist version of anti-vaxxers.

I think you’re right that the messaging of companies trying to appear feminist in their communications while nevertheless usually being run almost exclusively by men is a huge part of the source material that produces the bias here.

Lol, that isn't what I wrote - again, it's what your distorted view of the world understands. Of course, women work in such companies and also approve such messages to meet sales. Shock. But yawn, again, from your pov, it's the men's fault because that opinion justifies your hatred of men - it's them, not me.

That said, I think you’re right that the messaging of companies trying to appear feminist in their communications while nevertheless usually being run almost exclusively by men is a huge part of the source material that produces the bias here. I’m not sure we disagree much in substance, but I suspect we come from different starting points in how we see gender dynamics in society.

Thanks for the voice of reason in this sea of hate.

From my pov it would be best to have completely anonymised applications and no involvement of AI in the hiring process.

It's not men against women, it's people against billionaires.

It's not the fact that these people are men that I take issue with, it's that they are hypocrites capitalising feminist sentiments without making any actual effort towards real change.

Edit: Since I wrote my response the comment I responded to was changed into something even dumber. I'll let it speak for itself.

You're welcome. I mean it's kind of a factual question. Is gender an indicator on its own? If yes, then the rest is just how statistics and probability work... And that's not really a controversy. Maths in itself works 🥹

I'd also welcome if we were to cut down on unrelated stuff, stereotypes and biases. Just pick what you like to optimize for and then do that. At least if you believe in the free market in that way. Of course it also has an impact on society, people etc and all of that is just complex. And then women and men aren't really different, but at the same time they are. And statistics is more or less a tool. Highly depends on what you do with it and how you apply it. It's like that with most tools. (And LLMs in the current form are kind of a shit tool for this if you ask me.)

For most jobs it's hard to do a hiring process without in-person interviews, or at the very least video calls. So I'm not really sure how one could realistically get rid of biases. But I completely agree that whenever there are too many applications to interview everyone individually, the initial screening of applicants should be completely anonymized and rely only only technologies where biases can at least be understood.

For the final step I'm afraid we'll have to try to train people to be less prone to biased decision-making. Which I agree is not a very promising path.

Is gender an indicator on its own?

I’m not sure if you mean the social construct or the sex assigned at birth. Probably the latter as you mentioned “on its own”.

I have a lot of issues with the social construct as it’s basically a nicer word for “stereotype”. It looks like men and women alike suffer because of these stereotypes. The social constructs, the stereotypes, are the basis for bias. To me it seems like gender never is “on its own”. It’s the way we perceive the biological sex and compare it to our expectations.

Sex on the other hand is no indicator on its own, I think.

And I agree statistics is always a problem, that’s why LLMs are problematic in a lot of ways.

the problematic part of this is that you’ve stripped all context to support your, admittedly bigoted, rhetoric and ethos.

black people, generally, have worse education outcomes than whites in american education. you’d still be an incredibly shitty and terrible person if you advocated hiring white people over black people by rote rule. you can find plenty of “studies” that formalize that argument just as you have here, though. essentialist can just say whatever they want, you guys aren’t bounded by rational thought and critical thinking like the rest of us. no, arguing considering context would be too hard. you’d rather just sort people into nice little easy bins, wouldn’t you?

no, i think most rational people understand that in a scenario like this all people have, on average, the same basic cognitive faculties and potential, and would then proceed to advocate for improving the educational conditions for groups that are falling behind not due to their own nature, but due to the system they are in.

but idk, i’m not a bigot so maybe my brain just implicitly rejects the idea “X people are worse/less intelligent/etc than Y people”

fucking think about what you’re saying. there is no “right people” to hate other than the rich and powerful. it isn’t a subversion of the feminist message to admit this. in fact, it makes you a better feminist. real feminist aren’t sexist.

can you imagine if you said this in a racial context and then you made an edit like “edit: can see i offended a lot of darkies with this :)”… are you dense? can you not see how you are engaging in the same kind of thought that oppressed you and likely spurred you towards feminism in the first place? except you don’t understand that what you do is patently unfeminist and makes the world a worse place. i can honestly say i fucking despise bigots, including people just like you.

Handpicked poor study... That's what this whole OP is about.

Allow me to do what feminists do - including in this very thread:

"Women can't take it"

I meant both sex and gender. They regularly fail to tell me a lot for my own real life. I like some people and dislike others and it's easier for me to talk to / work with / collaborate or empathize depending on various circumstances. Personality traits, shared goals... Maybe sharing something or it's the opposite of that. I believe gender or sex or identity is a bit overrated and so is stereotyped thinking for a lot of applications. Or the need to conform to a stereotype. Dress and identify however you like, make sure to give your children an electronics kit, a plastic excavator and a princess dress... And unless that's really important for some niche application, don't feel the urge to look into people's pants and check what's in there.