Yes. They are. Significantly.

Ignorance is bliss I guess? New cars are pretty much computers on wheels that collect data. This is not a secret or anything.

I mean, fuck China and the genocide of the Uighur. It's terrible. But I'm pretty confident that capitalism killed a whole lot more people throughout history.

Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.

And is even cheaper if someone else pay 30% of what you need to spend to build a car. So you can sell the car 30% less than others and still make a profit (maybe).

It is not a mystery that CCP subsidizes a lot of domestic EVs (among other things like solar panel) to become the dominant player in the market.
What would be interesting to see is what will happen after they become the dominant player.

New cars are pretty much computers on wheels that collect data

There's a difference between what telemetry a German car gathers, and what a Chinese car gathers. And where is it sent.

The data from EU companies is anonymised and private. The data from Chinese companies is always available to their government.

I mean, fuck China and the genocide of the Uighur. It’s terrible. But I’m pretty confident that capitalism killed a whole lot more people throughout history

Ah, I guess it's fine then. Since throughout history more people died because of capitalist policies, then we can support China with a clear conscience!

I do 100% agree with this, though:

Ignorance is bliss I guess?

Ok? I bought my E-Bike 8 years ago for 1500€ and use two roller bags and grab a bit of groceries on my way back from work. It's a 10km commute one way, so a total of 20km. It takes me a grand total of 26 minutes to get to work. The car usually takes longer due to traffic.

I mean, it's nice having a PHEV for bigger tasks but we (family of 3) only have one car. We do plenty with our E-Bikes.

Edit: and yes, I use the bike in winter, during rain and snow and I don't give a shit. I fortunately also don't live in a total shit hole, which was a choice I actively made.

Right but has anybody actually run a packet inspector on the data, or even confirm that it is sending packets back and by what method?

Because everybody "knows" China does this but everybody also "knows" that the Facebook app listens to you. As far as I know no evidence has ever been provided of either claim. The evidence is always ooh well I spoke about yoghurts and then 3 days later I had an advert for a yoghurt, which is somewhat unconvincing as conclusive proof.

The actual packets would be nice. Since you obviously have that evidence because you're saying they "literally" do it would you mind providing it?

Point me to a BYD vehicle that's cheap and its DIRECT competitor that costs significantly more.

They're pretty expensive if you consider the fact that the Germans know how to make a car, and the Chinese only know how to make a powertrain and infotainment. And they still cost about as much as the Germans for similar segment vehicles, so really you're even getting less for your money.

If you're comparing them to those brands then you're obviously just intentionally cherry picking vehicles that are not comparable and you know it.

Lemmy has always been retarded like that.

I'm saying that BYD is only cheap compared to its most expensive competitors and those brands aren't even operating in the same league.

Compare BYD prices to normal euro car prices and BYD is the same or more expensive. Hell even the popular GWM ORA 03 seems hella expensive for such a tiny car. Dacia will sell you an EV so cheap the Chinese aren't even competing with it. You need to pay 10k more to get a Chinese EV (which admittedly has more power and bigger battery).

The cars have a factory installed SIM-card that allows remote control AND remote access to the integrated phone system (without giving any notion that somebody is listening in on you in your car).

everybody also “knows” that the Facebook app listens to you

Shhhhhh, Facebook Actually Is Listening: Surveillance Marketing Explained | ESTIPONA GROUP

You’ve heard the questions and conspiracy theories, but we’ve done the research, and guess what? Facebook really is listening. So are your other devices. Here’s how that affects advertising, why you should care — and how to lock your devices down. Short of moving all conversations to a cone of silence, that is.  In a recent Estipona team meeting, our VP of Creative, Paige Galeoto, was sharing a seemingly inconsequential tidbit about her life: Namely, the fact that she had recently purchased recyclable produce bags for her trips to Raley’s. 

(www.estiponagroup.com)

As for China - THIS the bog-standard procedure for any tech-related company when an employee has to travel to China. Give them a burner phone and laptop, zero company data on them, zero access to critical company data, after they return, just throw the gear away.

I honestly don't now what other proof would you need, when we know them spying on regular people has been happening for decades.

Well, Germany is still actively supporting a genocide, and their car industry is probably supplying a not-insignificant amount of funds for that.

So does a lot of countries, and I am not sure if a car company has anything to do with decisions of politicians.

The data from EU companies is anonymised and private. The data from Chinese companies is always available to their government.

Just trust me bro, the EU respects you but the Chinese are out to get you. The same EU that still has a special trade agreement with the genocidal Zionists, and is their biggest trading partner. The same continent that colonized and enslaved much of the rest of the world for centuries.Those are the good guys that you should implicitly trust, no proof needed you paranoid dummy. The red Chinese, they're the scary ones. Fear them.

Haha, tell that VW who stored positional data with full precision against their own rules (the CCC Chaos computer Club did a good presentation about this).

That article does not contain any actual evidence of any wrongdoing by Facebook. The reason I don't think that they are listening is that would be an utterly insane amount of data and 99% of it would be worthless.

The clinch would be someone pointing to some actual data, which is why I keep asking for the packets, and yet years later no one has ever produced them. No cybersecurity expert has ever been able to show me a packet, it's the simplest thing in the world and, they can't find them. If you're into a conspiracy theories explain how that works. They are allegedly listening to you except there was no evidence of any data is going to the Facebook servers. So how are they getting it?

Facebook have a lot of data and people really aren't as random as they think they are I'm sure they can algorithmically get this data without having to resort to to listening on the microphone.

I think part of it is that they can actually do anything long-term. Even the most altruistic president in for example the US will get four, at most eight years to do what they're planning. That's not enough time to do anything meaningful, all the while they're dealing with flak from the consequences of the last presidency, and their successor will at best take credit for their achievements, at worst destroy them before they succeed. And that's assuming the citizens didn't elect a self-serving megalomaniac.

Winnie the pooh, I'm pretty sure, actually cares about his country. He's by no means benevolent, but he has the power, resources, and time to build proper infrastructure and reshape the country as he sees fit.

Socially they're way behind from what I, as an outsider, can tell. Women's rights at least seem somewhat acceptable with definite room for improvement, but queer rights are even worse. Oh and there's a literal genocide of Uyghurs so that's pretty fucking bad.

But the benefits of China's dictatorship lie in the fact that they can actually think in the long-term and not just until the next election (the politician's equivalent of the next financial quarter) so they can wield their powers and resources to achieve these goals. The glorious leader must be praised for centuries to come, that can't happen if the earth becomes uninhabitable due to climate change or the country crumbles in on itself due to failing education and a failing economy.

Now if only that applied to citizen's rights...

Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike.

Not sure why buying groceries on a bike would be annoying or impossible. I do all my grocery shopping by bike, every single day, sometimes twice a day. Just bring a backpack.

As for ‘anything of size’, what would you need to transport? I still have a car, but I use it so little that I only need to buy gas maybe once or twice a year.

Here you go:

• https://www.byd.com/en-th/data-privacy
• https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10416925
• https://region.com.au/worst-offenders-respond-to-claims-their-cars-are-spying-on-you/818187/

Do you really think that CCP politely declines this free data? It's so easy to hide spyware under "anonymous performance telimetry" - didn't we learn anything from Cabridge Analytica and a billion of other cases? God lord, you people deserve to be spied on.