Java at 30: How a language designed for a failed gadget became a global powerhouse
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But!.. Sun Java included internationalized set of Lucida fonts with proper hinting. Oracle removed that for whatever reason.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 02:55 zuletzt editiert vonHaha. I guess I never noticed.
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java was my 5th language, having just missed it as the AP CS language in highschool by a year. oddly i could not get behind such a massive standard library having come from BASIC, Pascal C++, ASM, VHDL. now after 30 years of programing i write Java web services for a living. feels strange.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:05 zuletzt editiert vonOddly, I did know some BASIC and I have vague memories of the numeric line starters like 10 with white text on a black background giving it a retro feel.
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You can annotate types in Python, and it's actually pretty nice when used with Pyright/Pylance.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:07 zuletzt editiert vonOh, I know you can, but it's optional and the syntax is kind of weird. I prefer languages that are strongly typed from the ground up and enforce it.
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This post did not contain any content.schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:11 zuletzt editiert von
I think Java was first released just after I graduated. I do program Java at my day job though, and I don’t mind it. It has its quirks but I find I can express myself using Java, but I probably try to think towards much in OO paradigms when I design and code.
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use bython, python with braces XD
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:14 zuletzt editiert vonHasn't been updated since 2018. Does it still work?
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Kotlin is very similar to C# in my opinion.
It’s a happy middle ground for me
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:20 zuletzt editiert vonIronic considering C# was supposed to be very similar to Java
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If you want to do something java like, try Kotlin. Its a more modern take on java and not developed by Oracle
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:40 zuletzt editiert vonI'm so grateful for Kotlin, it gets rid of so much of the annoyances in Java.
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I learned C++ as my first language and it was a great way to understand the core issues of a programming language — like memory allocation, memory freeing, the difference between memory addresses and the memory contents themselves, threads, system calls, etc. Java obscures these nuances to a degree, but Python is too friendly and makes it hard to understand them at all.
I believe if you learn C++ you can easily learn any other language. After C++, I learned Python, JavaScript, and Java in a few days each without formal instruction. If you learn Python first, you’re probably going to struggle learning those other languages because you haven’t grasped the lower level concepts yet and may never if you’re not in a formal setting that forced you to learn them.
No one disagrees that Python is easier, but if your goal is to get a foundation in programming that allows you to easily pick up other languages, you should start with C++.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:44 zuletzt editiert vonImo people should start with C first since it is a lot simpler than C++ while still providing a lot of what you mentioned. C++ adds a lot of things like name mangling, templates, L & R value references that can quickly make things a bit more daunting for beginners.
I also generally find error messages for C a lot more parsable for beginners than C++ ones.
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First learn C, then learn C++, then learn Java. In that order, each will make you appreciate what the previous one lacks. From there, you should pretty much be able to learn anything.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 03:57 zuletzt editiert vonHelp. I've been stuck learning c++ for almost 10 years.
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One Rich Asshole Called Lary Ellison
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 04:56 zuletzt editiert von boycottpro@lemm.ee 6. Feb. 2025, 22:35His political contributions are really on brand. He funded election deniers in 2022.
Also I've heard Oracle has a bad reputation when it comes to government contracts, very expensive poor quality software ripping off our taxpayers. I think they ought to be blacklisted or at-least require extra review due to their reputation. CUNY paid Oracle over $600 million and look at what that got them: https://pscbc.blogspot.com/2013/03/cuny-first-computer-system-to-aid.html . To be fair the article does claim that "The project required an expenditure of up to a billion dollars to do it right. CUNY Central offered far less. All but one of the bidders dropped out as a result". I'm confused why it needs to be so expensive, even $600 million seems like way too much.
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I used Java years ago for Android dev, but stopped when I stopped doing that. Every once in a while I'll get the itch to work on a new project, and always wonder if Java would be a good idea.
My hesitance is that I don't trust Oracle (and don't know to what extent they're involved nowadays), I'm not familiar enough with the ecosystem to know what is legacy crap to avoid, and I think it's generally seen as an uncool language, and I'm way too cool to be taking such risks.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:04 zuletzt editiert vonKotlin is now the language of choice for Android.
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OOP makes so much sense. What happened?
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:05 zuletzt editiert vonMany people increasingly find that using functional patterns enables them to build more reliable software.
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I liked Java a lot more before Oracle acquired Sun. I've used Oracle databases enough to hate Oracle with the passion of a supernova.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:09 zuletzt editiert vonI think I need to clear a common misconception people seem to have here: Oracle has very little to do with Java.
At most, Oracle has the following connection to Java:
- Own the trademark
- Have a build of the JDK/JRE with commercial support.
However, Java as a language's baseline comes from OpenJDK, an open source (GPL 2.0) community project which is upstream to several builds including Oracle's JVM. It follows a "bazaar" like development model similar to the Linux kernel where you can see their mailing lists and track what's being worked on. Anyone can contribute and the code is on Github: https://github.com/openjdk/jdk .
That being said, you don't even need to use Oracle's JDK (it sucks IMO) and use one of the community provided builds of OpenJDK. OpenJDK builds are provided by Eclipse, Amazon, Azul, Bellsoft and even Microsoft provides JDK/JRE builds. These are free of cost and have longer term support than Oracle's offering.
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I learned C++ as my first language and it was a great way to understand the core issues of a programming language — like memory allocation, memory freeing, the difference between memory addresses and the memory contents themselves, threads, system calls, etc. Java obscures these nuances to a degree, but Python is too friendly and makes it hard to understand them at all.
I believe if you learn C++ you can easily learn any other language. After C++, I learned Python, JavaScript, and Java in a few days each without formal instruction. If you learn Python first, you’re probably going to struggle learning those other languages because you haven’t grasped the lower level concepts yet and may never if you’re not in a formal setting that forced you to learn them.
No one disagrees that Python is easier, but if your goal is to get a foundation in programming that allows you to easily pick up other languages, you should start with C++.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:10 zuletzt editiert vonC++ is a monster. I'd suggest C instead to learn about these basic ideas.
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Python is interpreted where Java is compiled. They aren’t going to be able to be used in the same cases all the time.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:12 zuletzt editiert vonNot true. They use the same model, executing compiled bytecode. It just feels like directly running a script because Python compiles it to bytecode on the fly, and because it is embarrassingly slow.
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First learn C, then learn C++, then learn Java. In that order, each will make you appreciate what the previous one lacks. From there, you should pretty much be able to learn anything.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 05:13 zuletzt editiert vonYou can't learn C++. Some parts of it maybe.
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it succeeded in holding back the entire field of programming for a decade via that mindset by having people blindly apply stupid Java design patterns to everything.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 10:22 zuletzt editiert vonNo, it didn't.
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They did, but it makes me sad. Python is becoming the next JavaScript because of its ease of use.
The Java guys simply don't understand how to code without the gang of 4 crutch to lean on.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 10:27 zuletzt editiert vonSome of the GoF patterns over-emphasise inheritance, but by-and-large, you don't build large systems without either using or rediscovering software patterns, whether they're OO, FP, or what-have-you.
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Ironic considering C# was supposed to be very similar to Java
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 10:52 zuletzt editiert vonIts called Microsoft Java for a reason
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It's a cycle all popular languages go through. First only experimental applications and super opinionated programmers use it. Then everyone wants to use it for everything. Then it finds a niche where it excels and settles.
I remember Java, C++, Python, and JavaScript going through those phases as well. Currently, everything is Rust.
schrieb am 1. Juni 2025, 10:53 zuletzt editiert vonWhat is the "everything" that Rust is being used in? From what I've heard its being used in the same place you'd use C or C++, not in any other niches.
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