You’re going to plug in multiple headsets to your phone in regularly? You can’t just have a cheap dongle on those headsets’ cables?

Funny how almost everyone in here saying they need the 3.5mm jack also just happens to have a dozen pairs of headphones they use every day lol.

My needs isn't more important than anyone else, but I wanted to point out the selfishness of the oposite point of view by making mine as selfish.

There's nothing selfish here. Keeping the jack benefits everyone except Apple and other BT headphone OEMs. It doesn't hurt anyone else.

has no advantages over a dongle

The advantage is that you don't need a dongle...

and it inconveniences easily be overcome by simply adding a second usb-c port

Still requires carrying a dongle or buying a pair of headphones that only works with phones and computers, and not the vast array of other devices that still use headphone jacks, new and old. So that solves absolutely nothing. As I said elsewhere, we've created a competing standard, for no reason.

you'd be able to do far more than you'll ever be able to do with a 3.5mm jack

What? Do you think we're suggesting removing the USB port? What are you talking about?

And it would take you 5min searching the web to get good review about usbc DAC with actually good sound, even better than any internal DAC.

I don't want to search the web. I don't want a DAC. I just want to plug in my headphones. This is absurd.

It cost a whopping... $10.

$10 to buy something that previously cost me $0. Only it's inevitably going to get lost so you'd better buy a half dozen of them and replace them every few years, so you're looking at dozens of $ per year for something that was previously completely unnecessary.

As for the precise number...I'm not in that field, I do not have access to them

Yeah, I didn't think so.

But Fairphone does

Where? If you know they have it, then you must have it as well?

and if they don't bother adding that port back, they are most probably basing their decision on them.

No, they're basing that decision on the same thing everyone else is: money. Greed. Much like Apple they also released their own bluetooth headphones at the same time as they removed their headphone jack. But I suppose that's just coincidence, right?

Could also have been the other way around.

Fairphone removes the headphone jack > realize they would need an alternative > realize most TW headphones are e-waste to be > make their own with blackjack and hookers a removable battery, making it a solution to TW headphones with non-removable batteries.

Don't call fool without any proof, or you'll have a very sad life supposing the worst from anyone you'll meet. Coincidence is no proof of causation.

No, we aren't forgetting. Precisely because they are a corporation driven by profits like any other, they will do what sells units. It actually goes against the argument for headphone jacks. It is an admission that the people who vocally want phones with headphone jacks don't buy phones (even if they have headphone jacks) and are an statistically insignificant amount of people. My original point. You are vocal, but disingenuous (perhaps not on purpose).

Fairphone catered to the mass market with the Fairphone 4 (and removed the headphone jack) and broke their own sales records. Sorry, that's just the truth. What you want is against the grain of the rest of the market. Yes, even the market who want repairable modular phones.

Because when push comes to shove, you might want the headphone jack but it doesn't drive your purchase decision. And that's the important part. As an example, another person on this very thread asked what phone with a headphone jack is good, someone else gave a suggestion and immediately got the reply.

I considered that phone, but it didn't have an OLED screen, so I didn't buy it.

Admitting that — despite being very vocal about wanting the headphone jack — that feature is actually low in their own list of decision making priorities. At the very least it is below screen quality. Raising the question, where should a profit driven company choose to invest money in when presented with that customer?

In marketing, people are usually very vocal about things that actually don't influence their own purchase decisions. That's just a fact, people are very bad at knowing what they want. That's why you should always observe their behavior, not just ask their opinion. Because a lot of people express opinions they don't uphold with actions.

Which brand of adpater did you get? If you got a generic one then a bad DAC and durability aren't surprises.

I've used three: one was generic (it was at the time the only way to get one that could charge and have a headphone out in the same dongle), one was from Fiio (surprisingly bad sounding, maybe worse than the generic in some ways, but better build), and one was the official Google dongle (sounded clean, but was super weak. Couldn't power even my lightest headphones that weren't IEMs). The only one I still have is the Google dongle because the others broke, but I don't use it because it still kinda sucks. I ended up being forced to buy a phone without a headphone jack fairly recently because Google more or less killed my Pixel 4a and there were no replacement phones with headphones jacks that I could put GrapheneOS on. I ended up buying myself a portable music player to list to music on. My phone is now only for listening to music in the car and it sucks

Maybe try the Apple one when Android 16 comes out (in GrapheneOS form) which fixes the volume issues.

They lose no customers by including it. They lose some by omitting it.

So it boils down to being too expensive to include? Hardly!

You evaluate prior decisions with posterior data. But you fail to take into account the counterfactuals. How do you know how much the FP4 would have sold with a jack?

Claiming that an increase in sales validates the goodness of the decision is not causal.

It is the same logic that would tell you that playing russian roulette is worthwile in case you win and get some reward. That's backwards rationalization, fitting a narrative.

If market research universally showed that people don't care about a jack then why do some phones still have it? Are these manufacturers going against the grain? Surely they wouldn't leave money on the table if it worked like that.

The justification of "they do what sells units" is backwards. It would imply that no product would ever flop. But products regularly do. There is no telling in advance how it will perform, and saying otherwise is falling prey to the problem of induction, whether past observarions justify predictions.

The FP4 could have broke sales records for a multitude of reasons. How can you say which factor caused it when there is only one scenario that played out? We don't have alternative universes to compare, where they released one with a jack, or another with some other altered specs.

Okay so now this is my fault. Do you know how many adapters I lost before I needed one?

Yes, losing your things is your fault lol

You can - Samsung phones are really well supported for that.

I'm back to statistical significant data, and why it is important to have good data scientists in the loop. The idea is precisely to ask the questions you are asking. Would have been different if…? Then try to control for other variables in order to avoid the induction error. How do you know they didn't do this with their data?

That's why I mention other phone models. There are Sony phones with and without jacks. There are Asus phones with and without jacks. How did they perform compared to each other? How far away is that difference from what could be expected from randomness? How does that difference compare when the other factors are compensated for? How do they compare with other phones?

I assume they did their homework, and also want to sell more earbuds. They wouldn't push for earbuds and wireless if headphone jacks were market drivers. It would be cheaper to install a headphone jack rather than updating the BT board? Maybe, I don't know. But if other factors have a significant impact on sales while the jack doesn't. Then they have their decision made for them. Market research is not about being right all the time, it is not magic, it is about reducing uncertainty and risk in making decisions. Precisely because there are other phone makers with a headphone jack that do worse than the Fairphone is base enough to understand why they feel safe keeping that feature out. It doesn't add sales and its absence doesn't reduce them significantly either. So they know they are free to keep going even if some vocal critics will be pissed, the actual buyers couldn't care any less.

I can't help but detect some passive hostility in your response.

Phone thickness is far from the only consideration. But Ok, you are right. There was space on the iPhone 7. That was also the first water resistant phone. Does this guy phone's is still IP67 compliant after all the surgery he made. And that was in 2016, when IP67 headphone jacks didn't exist. Now the phone standard is IP68. There were no IP68 compliant headphone jacks until recently, I think the ASUS Zenfone 12 is the first one.

I think companies won't bring the headphone jack (a shame, really). But the writing is in the wall, it went away, and phones still sold like hotcakes. While those with headphone jacks aren't being bought anywhere near the same volume. So the signal is very clear, the effort to add a headphone jack — however little it may be — is not financially worth it. It is a feature that doesn't drive sales. Period.

Is it my fault when having the things in the first place is just a hacky workaround driven by corporate greed?

Can you show an example of one from 3 years ago?

Because my experience was that most ROMs were based on AOSP/ LineageOS , which supports very few Samsung phones, and no flagships since the 2018 S10.

And even of those, many didn't support IMS/VoLTE/VoWiFi which made them useless in any geos that didn't have 3G fallback for voice. You can't make or receive phone calls.

Yes, it is your fault for losing or breaking your own property. Take some responsibility. When I moved to a phone without a headphone jack while driving a car that I plug my phone in via headphone jack, I simply kept the adapter plugged in to the cable in the car. It never broke. It never got lost. It stayed there until I got a Bluetooth head unit.

I’ve still got it in a drawer ready for if I ever needed it again, but since I’m not an audiophile with a $10k+ sound system listening to FLACs from my phone I don’t need it.

You know you’ve got not argument when you have to compare a $700 dollar phone to a $5 dongle for your argument to even make sense.

Oh, so I should buy $100 dongles then? lol Everyone's argument about the dongles is that they're super cheap, that's why I made the comparison.

In those phones the DAC is used primarily for phone calls.

Oh really? And how exactly do you think that the phone is generating the audio that comes through its speaker when you're doing anything else? Like listening to music, videos, etc? Does your phone really not make a single sound apart from the audio in phone calls?

I wasn’t talking about some cheap $5 dongle, I specifically said quality headphones

headphone =/= dongle

The dongle is what you connect TO the headphone. Regardless, be more specific then. What's the one you recommend? Should I buy $50 dongles then and keep them attached to my headphones? Since I use 4/5 of them does that mean that it's ok in your opinion that I now need to spend $250 in dongles instead of just having a tiny, cheap, reliable jack on my $700 phone?

How much more specific do I need to be when I explicitly say "USB-C headphones"? What do you think USB-C stands for?

You could've done a single web search yo find that you can buy wired headphones that go straight into the USB-C port.No dongle required. But you're too busy foaming from the mouth like a rabid dog to even understand what I said.

Bullshit