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Intel collapsing?

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  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    What happened to all that money Biden gave them? Down the toilet? I don't know about you, but some motherfuckers got paid.

  • What happened to all that money Biden gave them? Down the toilet? I don't know about you, but some motherfuckers got paid.

    Yup lost it down the back of a sofa in HQ. They are literally looking at losing $10 billion this year

  • What happened to all that money Biden gave them? Down the toilet? I don't know about you, but some motherfuckers got paid.

    Republicans happened.

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    Part of what saved AMD was spinning off their fabs into a separate company. Besides the cash flow, they could focus on design and weren't hitched to what their own fabs could produce. They could choose the best fab contract they could afford.

    Pat Gelsinger floated the idea of spinning off the fabs, but the US government shut it down as part of the deal for building new fabs with government money. The fabs that Intel may not even finish now.

    Another factor for AMD was having their SoC in consoles. Kept some cash flow going when they desperately needed it. Intel doesn't have that benefit, either. AMD owns the PS5 and Xbox, while Nvidia has Nintendo. Steam Deck-like handhelds are a small but growing market, and all the ones people want to buy run AMD.

    So the question comes up of what Intel can even do for cash flow. Their GPU division might start showing real profit in another generation, but they have to survive that long while taking a loss. One more uncompetitive generation of CPU releases will probably doom their core product, and the best they can hope for there is "not completely suck". The datacenter market was holding on because Intel has traditionally been rock solid stable, but that argument was killed with the 13th/14th gen overheating issues (which did affect equivalent server processors, as well). Their other hardware, like networking chipsets, comes with the same dark cloud looming over it, and it isn't enough to keep the company running, anyway.

  • Part of what saved AMD was spinning off their fabs into a separate company. Besides the cash flow, they could focus on design and weren't hitched to what their own fabs could produce. They could choose the best fab contract they could afford.

    Pat Gelsinger floated the idea of spinning off the fabs, but the US government shut it down as part of the deal for building new fabs with government money. The fabs that Intel may not even finish now.

    Another factor for AMD was having their SoC in consoles. Kept some cash flow going when they desperately needed it. Intel doesn't have that benefit, either. AMD owns the PS5 and Xbox, while Nvidia has Nintendo. Steam Deck-like handhelds are a small but growing market, and all the ones people want to buy run AMD.

    So the question comes up of what Intel can even do for cash flow. Their GPU division might start showing real profit in another generation, but they have to survive that long while taking a loss. One more uncompetitive generation of CPU releases will probably doom their core product, and the best they can hope for there is "not completely suck". The datacenter market was holding on because Intel has traditionally been rock solid stable, but that argument was killed with the 13th/14th gen overheating issues (which did affect equivalent server processors, as well). Their other hardware, like networking chipsets, comes with the same dark cloud looming over it, and it isn't enough to keep the company running, anyway.

    Exactly this but people I have spoken to recently say that they are pretty much past the point of no return already haven taken (as said) a load of government money around the globe and cannot finish the fabs they were paid in advance to help them. Pretty much the worst fall from grace ever.

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    I think the overall risk of investing in a single company is still too much right now, but I'll be damned if I'm not regretting the timing of selling my shares. I made a big profit either way but dang.

  • Exactly this but people I have spoken to recently say that they are pretty much past the point of no return already haven taken (as said) a load of government money around the globe and cannot finish the fabs they were paid in advance to help them. Pretty much the worst fall from grace ever.

    My best guess is that it gets sold off to the company who buys the most $1M/plate dinners with Trump.

  • Part of what saved AMD was spinning off their fabs into a separate company. Besides the cash flow, they could focus on design and weren't hitched to what their own fabs could produce. They could choose the best fab contract they could afford.

    Pat Gelsinger floated the idea of spinning off the fabs, but the US government shut it down as part of the deal for building new fabs with government money. The fabs that Intel may not even finish now.

    Another factor for AMD was having their SoC in consoles. Kept some cash flow going when they desperately needed it. Intel doesn't have that benefit, either. AMD owns the PS5 and Xbox, while Nvidia has Nintendo. Steam Deck-like handhelds are a small but growing market, and all the ones people want to buy run AMD.

    So the question comes up of what Intel can even do for cash flow. Their GPU division might start showing real profit in another generation, but they have to survive that long while taking a loss. One more uncompetitive generation of CPU releases will probably doom their core product, and the best they can hope for there is "not completely suck". The datacenter market was holding on because Intel has traditionally been rock solid stable, but that argument was killed with the 13th/14th gen overheating issues (which did affect equivalent server processors, as well). Their other hardware, like networking chipsets, comes with the same dark cloud looming over it, and it isn't enough to keep the company running, anyway.

    I would be absolutely shocked if Intel spun off their fabs. Having worked at an Intel site (Ocotillo), they are extremely controlling of everything going on inside the factory to their own detriment; so much so that if hopping on one foot while doing a specific task on a tool somehow improves yield by any metric, then it's added to spec and never questioned again.

    Hell, they were still running their 1272 process (14nm) on some tools when I left in 2022.

    TL;DR - They need to spin off the fabs for their own survival. And its gonna take an act of god to do so.

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    It of course won't happen, but if Intel went poof next monday then what would happen to the x86 ecosystem. It's basically co-owned by AMD and Intel. As I recall the sharing partnership that these two have basically prevents neither guy from selling their patents/license to third parties. Would we just be left with AMD monopoly with intel's corpse hanging from it, until X86 finally croaks? Do these CPU licensing agreements prevent just wholesale acquisition of Intel?

  • It of course won't happen, but if Intel went poof next monday then what would happen to the x86 ecosystem. It's basically co-owned by AMD and Intel. As I recall the sharing partnership that these two have basically prevents neither guy from selling their patents/license to third parties. Would we just be left with AMD monopoly with intel's corpse hanging from it, until X86 finally croaks? Do these CPU licensing agreements prevent just wholesale acquisition of Intel?

    If Intel disappears, I imagine AMD will end up as the sole owner of the relevant Intel x86 patents during bankruptcy proceedings. Then AMD will then either negotiate a new agreement with someone else who wants to make x86 processors, or they end up having a monopoly on x86 and are forced to tread extremely lightly to avoid an antitrust lawsuit.

  • If Intel disappears, I imagine AMD will end up as the sole owner of the relevant Intel x86 patents during bankruptcy proceedings. Then AMD will then either negotiate a new agreement with someone else who wants to make x86 processors, or they end up having a monopoly on x86 and are forced to tread extremely lightly to avoid an antitrust lawsuit.

    I think someone would get those Intel X86 rights. However there may be questions on whether the rights from AMD like A64 are transferable. But if some company buys the entire Intel X86 division, I bet that counts as the patents remaining within the division that has the rights, although it is under different ownership. We recently had the Arm vs Qualcomm case that showed this can be allowed.
    Anyways this might be disruptive, and the immediate effect would probably be that AMD X86 will be a lot more expensive.

  • Part of what saved AMD was spinning off their fabs into a separate company. Besides the cash flow, they could focus on design and weren't hitched to what their own fabs could produce. They could choose the best fab contract they could afford.

    Pat Gelsinger floated the idea of spinning off the fabs, but the US government shut it down as part of the deal for building new fabs with government money. The fabs that Intel may not even finish now.

    Another factor for AMD was having their SoC in consoles. Kept some cash flow going when they desperately needed it. Intel doesn't have that benefit, either. AMD owns the PS5 and Xbox, while Nvidia has Nintendo. Steam Deck-like handhelds are a small but growing market, and all the ones people want to buy run AMD.

    So the question comes up of what Intel can even do for cash flow. Their GPU division might start showing real profit in another generation, but they have to survive that long while taking a loss. One more uncompetitive generation of CPU releases will probably doom their core product, and the best they can hope for there is "not completely suck". The datacenter market was holding on because Intel has traditionally been rock solid stable, but that argument was killed with the 13th/14th gen overheating issues (which did affect equivalent server processors, as well). Their other hardware, like networking chipsets, comes with the same dark cloud looming over it, and it isn't enough to keep the company running, anyway.

    AMD was absolutely hitched to global foundries for years, it was only because glofo decided to not go for 7nm, that AMD was allowed by glofo to use TSMC for the Ryzen 3000 series (Zen 2), and was partially released from the agreement ahead of time, provided they still had substantial orders with GloFo, which they honored with continuing discounted sales of the Ryzen 2000 series produced at glofo 12nm, and also using GloFo 12nm for their l3 cache chips.
    AMD maneuvered the situation brilliantly, and turned necessity into an advantage.

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    We really need Intel to get their shit together.

  • It of course won't happen, but if Intel went poof next monday then what would happen to the x86 ecosystem. It's basically co-owned by AMD and Intel. As I recall the sharing partnership that these two have basically prevents neither guy from selling their patents/license to third parties. Would we just be left with AMD monopoly with intel's corpse hanging from it, until X86 finally croaks? Do these CPU licensing agreements prevent just wholesale acquisition of Intel?

    Companies as big as Intel don't typically go poof, they have bankruptcy proceedings and sell off their assets. If those assets contractually can't be sold, then yeah AMD would be the remaining owner.

  • We really need Intel to get their shit together.

    Me, standing on the shore with a life raft next to me, watching Intel drown: ehhhh.. do we really, though...? They tried to cancel a contract with amd and sue them in an attempt to kill the company in its infancy; they bribed major OEMs when amd was first to market with a 1GHz chip, first to market with x64, trying again to kill the company, this time through starvation; then they sat on their ass for 15 years with essentially no progress, just collecting cash for the most minimal of improvements... I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of other shit the company has done, playing dirty at every opportunity. It's been about a decade since I took a deep-dive into this.

    I don't have a (monitary) horse in this race, but as this has progressed, with the side addition of their chips literally disintegrating, it's been very... enjoyable, validating, to have stuck with amd since finding out about all the bullshit intel has, would do, and continues to do, to try and control the market and remain in control, no matter the cost. Karma may, finally, have caught up with them.

  • Me, standing on the shore with a life raft next to me, watching Intel drown: ehhhh.. do we really, though...? They tried to cancel a contract with amd and sue them in an attempt to kill the company in its infancy; they bribed major OEMs when amd was first to market with a 1GHz chip, first to market with x64, trying again to kill the company, this time through starvation; then they sat on their ass for 15 years with essentially no progress, just collecting cash for the most minimal of improvements... I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of other shit the company has done, playing dirty at every opportunity. It's been about a decade since I took a deep-dive into this.

    I don't have a (monitary) horse in this race, but as this has progressed, with the side addition of their chips literally disintegrating, it's been very... enjoyable, validating, to have stuck with amd since finding out about all the bullshit intel has, would do, and continues to do, to try and control the market and remain in control, no matter the cost. Karma may, finally, have caught up with them.

    We need every competitor in the cpu market. If AMD wins and destroys intel they will act the same way. We need another competitor in the GPU market as well.

  • We need every competitor in the cpu market. If AMD wins and destroys intel they will act the same way. We need another competitor in the GPU market as well.

    Competition is fine, but just like the school bully, if I see him getting his ass handed to him, I'm stopping to watch, not to help. But I'm sure as hell going to enjoy the show.

  • What happened to all that money Biden gave them? Down the toilet? I don't know about you, but some motherfuckers got paid.

    Not sure if it's the same amount of money you're referring to or if there's another budget given to them but the video does indicate that for one of them, Intel claims that they have never received the money.

  • Starting to see a lot of worried people as Intel descends downwards rapidly. Reminds me of Nokia how this is going...

    We need more competition in HW space tho

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    kalkulat@lemmy.worldK
    OK FC, come at me! But be warned, I've been armed by Hancock! AND Pink Floyd!
  • ChatGPT Confessions gone? They are not !

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    F
    Yes, but that wording is misleading. Typical web discovery happens when a crawler finds a published link. It sounds like in this case, they're just giving each and every share link to Google etc, even if the link is not posted anywhere public.
  • What Does a Post-Google Internet Look Like

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    blisterexe@lemmy.zipB
    I'm just sad I'm too young to have ever seen that old internet, and what it was like... Makes me more determined to try and steer the current internet back in that direction though.
  • We need to stop pretending AI is intelligent

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    dsilverz@friendica.worldD
    @technocrit While I agree with the main point that "AI/LLMs has/have no agency", I must be the boring, ackchyually person who points out and remembers some nerdy things.tl;dr: indeed, AIs and LLMs aren't intelligent... we aren't so intelligent as we think we are, either, because we hold no "exclusivity" of intelligence among biosphere (corvids, dolphins, etc) and because there's no such thing as non-deterministic "intelligence". We're just biologically compelled to think that we can think and we're the only ones to think, and this is just anthropocentric and naive from us (yeah, me included).If you have the patience to read a long and quite verbose text, it's below. If you don't, well, no problems, just stick to my tl;dr above.-----First and foremost, everything is ruled by physics. Deep down, everything is just energy and matter (the former of which, to quote the famous Einstein equation e = mc, is energy as well), and this inexorably includes living beings.Bodies, flesh, brains, nerves and other biological parts, they're not so different from a computer case, CPUs/NPUs/TPUs, cables and other computer parts: to quote Sagan, it's all "made of star stuff", it's all a bunch of quarks and other elementary particles clumped together and forming subatomic particles forming atoms forming molecules forming everything we know, including our very selves...Everything is compelled to follow the same laws of physics, everything is subjected to the same cosmic principles, everything is subjected to the same fundamental forces, everything is subjected to the same entropy, everything decays and ends (and this comment is just a reminder, a cosmic-wide Memento mori).It's bleak, but this is the cosmic reality: cosmos is simply indifferent to all existence, and we're essentially no different than our fancy "tools", be it the wheel, the hammer, the steam engine, the Voyager twins or the modern dystopian electronic devices crafted to follow pieces of logical instructions, some of which were labelled by developers as "Markov Chains" and "Artificial Neural Networks".Then, there's also the human non-exclusivity among the biosphere: corvids (especially Corvus moneduloides, the New Caleidonian crow) are scientifically known for their intelligence, so are dolphins, chimpanzees and many other eukaryotas. Humans love to think we're exclusive in that regard, but we're not, we're just fooling ourselves!IMHO, every time we try to argue "there's no intelligence beyond humans", it's highly anthropocentric and quite biased/bigoted against the countless other species that currently exist on Earth (and possibly beyond this Pale Blue Dot as well). We humans often forgot how we are species ourselves (taxonomically classified as "Homo sapiens"). We tend to carry on our biological existences as if we were some kind of "deities" or "extraterrestrials" among a "primitive, wild life".Furthermore, I can point out the myriad of philosophical points, such as the philosophical point raised by the mere mention of "senses" ("Because it’s bodiless. It has no senses, ..." "my senses deceive me" is the starting point for Cartesian (René Descartes) doubt. While Descarte's conclusion, "Cogito ergo sum", is highly anthropocentric, it's often ignored or forgotten by those who hold anthropocentric views on intelligence, as people often ground the seemingly "exclusive" nature of human intelligence on the ability to "feel".Many other philosophical musings deserve to be mentioned as well: lack of free will (stemming from the very fact that we were unable to choose our own births), the nature of "evil" (both the Hobbesian line regarding "human evilness" and the Epicurean paradox regarding "metaphysical evilness"), the social compliance (I must point out to documentaries from Derren Brown on this subject), the inevitability of Death, among other deep topics.All deep principles and ideas converging, IMHO, into the same bleak reality, one where we (supposedly "soul-bearing beings") are no different from a "souless" machine, because we're both part of an emergent phenomena (Ordo ab chao, the (apparent) order out of chaos) that has been taking place for Æons (billions of years and beyond, since the dawn of time itself).Yeah, I know how unpopular this worldview can be and how downvoted this comment will probably get. Still I don't care: someone who gazed into the abyss must remember how the abyss always gazes us, even those of us who didn't dare to gaze into the abyss yet.I'm someone compelled by my very neurodivergent nature to remember how we humans are just another fleeting arrangement of interconnected subsystems known as "biological organism", one of which "managed" to throw stuff beyond the atmosphere (spacecrafts) while still unable to understand ourselves. We're biologically programmed, just like the other living beings, to "fear Death", even though our very cells are programmed to terminate on a regular basis (apoptosis) and we're are subjected to the inexorable chronological falling towards "cosmic chaos" (entropy, as defined, "as time passes, the degree of disorder increases irreversibly").
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    exec@pawb.socialE
    I mean no more live view via the screen
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    If you use LLMs like they should be, i.e. as autocomplete, they're helpful. Classic autocomplete can't see me type "import" and correctly guess that I want to import a file that I just created, but Copilot can. You shouldn't expect it to understand code, but it can type more quickly than you and plug the right things in more often than not.
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    I don't see Yarvin on here... this needs expansion.
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