Firefox is dead to me – and I'm not the only one who is fed up
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Yeah it's bad. Most of the points made in that article are valid.
And once Firefox is gone, all the LibreWolfs and IronFoxs are gone too.
At some point in time FF was a normal project. A good project even. It could be in theory forked as easily as INN, or LibreOffice, or Xorg (oops, never mind), or whatever else big and "classical". It was open to contributors, open in leadership. It was kinda anarchist.
Like a good FOSS project, they considered all the tinkery\hobbyist use cases, having xulrunner and XUL in general. Like a good FOSS project, they didn't treat what's now normal there as normal.
They had a sane UI. They supported the SeaMonkey project, because why be a jerk when you need not.
But then at some point they made a deal with Google. So that's a lesson - any deal works both ways.
For me dropping XUL was the first firm sign of FF's death, because they didn't replace it with anything as good. It almost felt as if the main technical merit of dropping XUL was inability to tinker with it, and XUL's problems with security and parallelism were used as excuses. They could have made an incompatible, but just as functional replacement, not just for my convenience, but for their own too.
So, IMHO, if FF hadn't died, they'd just split paths with the commercial web as far as a decade ago. Probably come up with something like what's Gemini project is doing now, except much more.
BTW, FF was a big enough browser to even affect de facto web standards, were it a good thing to use while ignoring Google's bullshit. Instead they decided to track the bullshit and make the FF itself crappier and "more like Chrome" to compete for Chrome users.
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ladybird
No planned windows support though 🫤
That's a feature, not a bug.
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I’m in the same boat using Zen. Eagerly waiting on Ladybird to come out. They are writing it from the ground up not even a package being used according to them. Oh and this isn’t some rando this is a guy who done decades of coding(mostly browser) so my hopes are high as Snoop
Ladybird is nice, but has a long way to go.
I personally think just tracking today's Web is useless. It's dying. It's a system that went from conscious development to malicious growth of standards for the purpose of capturing the field.
There's a need of at least search, payments, hosting and CDN (and pooling in there, and paying for a resource and selling a resource) being integrated into the system for the new Web-like thing. So that siloed services solving these problems weren't needed. I'm thinking lately of a system with some kind of "resource market", where it's seamless to globally sell and buy storage and computing resources, and transparent routing to those resources, with the market itself reminiscent of MMORPG markets, like in EVE. With search and payments being uniform, so that your client would aggregate results of many automatically retrieved indexers from a pool, without dependence on a single search engine.
I dunno if this looks stupid. Just - paying for things with ads seems to have been a bad idea retrospectively.
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I don't want to donate to Mozilla, I want to donate to Firefox. I can donate to Mozilla, but little if any money would go to firefox, instead it goes to various causes unrelated to web browsers.
Exactly. Mozilla needs to stay in their fucking lane and work on Firefox. That's what they should exist for. Not all this other crap.
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Isn't it technically possible to split browser functions so we can recombine as we like? - i.e. separating the rendering / js engine from everything around the side - managing all the tabs, bookmarks, cookies and passwords, workspaces and sessions, mail, notes etc.
In my case, I like the workspace structure provided by Vivaldi, but don't see why it has to be built on chromium browser.
Anyway as a developer I need to test against blink, webkit and gecko, so would be nice to swap them within the same user interface structure.
By the way, I develop a "javascript-heavy" web-app (interactive climate model) and it seems to be working fine, and fast, in firefox, so I'm not convinced by complaints in the article.That's what we had with xulrunner. Unfortunately Mozilla dropped XUL and didn't offer a good replacement.
You could make any kind of browser with xulrunner.
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I think they meant Orion, not onion.
Thanks for the correction
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Why do people love to hate on Firefox? People have been harping on Pocket for years as a waste of resources that hardly anyone uses, but now that they are eliminating it, people are coming out of the woodwork to wax nostalgic?
It turns out that making a modern browser is a huge, complex task. It's been said that it is more on par with maintaining an OS than another type of app. Mozilla is not perfect but why are we so quick to let the perfect be the enemy of the good?
It's pretty tone-deaf to criticize layoffs on the same article that acknowledges their historic dependence on Google's rapidly collapsing monopoly. Where is the money going to come from?
A poorly thought out blog post about the only major browser that isn't built on Apple, Google, or Microsoft.
It's pretty tone-deaf to criticize layoffs on the same article that acknowledges their historic dependence on Google's rapidly collapsing monopoly. Where is the money going to come from?
If you scroll up, you'll see the part of the article that mentions Mozilla wasting tens of millions of dollars on AI.
Where do you think that money comes from?
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i use Waterfox. its great. its a fork of firefox that still respects privacy.
The forks won't last long without firefox.
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But where does libre wolf go if Mozilla vanishes?
We can cross that bridge when we get to it. In the mean time, we have alternatives. Even in a worst case scenario, Mozilla can coast for a while without more Google bucks.
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It's pretty tone-deaf to criticize layoffs on the same article that acknowledges their historic dependence on Google's rapidly collapsing monopoly. Where is the money going to come from?
If you scroll up, you'll see the part of the article that mentions Mozilla wasting tens of millions of dollars on AI.
Where do you think that money comes from?
The author's timeline is off. The AI investment was in 2023, before most of the Google antitrust activity. They are also scaling back their AI programs.
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Scoot over and make room for me in that boat.
We're gonna need a bigger boat.
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We're gonna need a bigger boat.
ominous music plays in the background
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Ladybird is nice, but has a long way to go.
I personally think just tracking today's Web is useless. It's dying. It's a system that went from conscious development to malicious growth of standards for the purpose of capturing the field.
There's a need of at least search, payments, hosting and CDN (and pooling in there, and paying for a resource and selling a resource) being integrated into the system for the new Web-like thing. So that siloed services solving these problems weren't needed. I'm thinking lately of a system with some kind of "resource market", where it's seamless to globally sell and buy storage and computing resources, and transparent routing to those resources, with the market itself reminiscent of MMORPG markets, like in EVE. With search and payments being uniform, so that your client would aggregate results of many automatically retrieved indexers from a pool, without dependence on a single search engine.
I dunno if this looks stupid. Just - paying for things with ads seems to have been a bad idea retrospectively.
Hard agree on most of these.
Try searchxng regards the search bit. It’s a self hostable search proxy. It’ll use everything from bing to duckduck and the topics(eg map search images) are more relevant and specific (at least for me) it looks like the unshitified google era.And ofc ladybird is far af but i think it’s something that we need right now
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That's a feature, not a bug.
It's not gonna get very far then lol
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The author's timeline is off. The AI investment was in 2023, before most of the Google antitrust activity. They are also scaling back their AI programs.
Today [October 28, 2024] Germ announces pre-seed funding from investors K5 Global via partner Daniel Marcotte, Mozilla Ventures, Gaingels, and angel investors including Nick Sullivan, Jessica Millstone of Copper Wire Ventures, and Adam Sah.
Germ Network raises pre-seed funding from K5 Global, Mozilla Ventures — Germ Network
Former Apple privacy engineer Mark Xue teams up with ex-Stanford social media scholar Tessa Brown to put people in control of what they share online
Germ Network (www.germnetwork.com)
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It's not gonna get very far then lol
Actually they say in 2028 they will have ladybird production version on windows
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If firebox being bankrolled by Google didn't raise red flags for you before, I have some NFTs I'd like to sell you that I think you'll find interesting.
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If firebox being bankrolled by Google didn't raise red flags for you before, I have some NFTs I'd like to sell you that I think you'll find interesting.
Only after I make sure they're legit by running them through FakeSpot NFT Guard.
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They had many years to develop alternative sources of income instead of relying solely on Google. But instead, they’ve been chasing every trend set by big corporations for no clear reason. I really dislike their CEO and the entire leadership team — they’re destroying Mozilla from the inside. Rather than implementing a recovery plan, which they could’ve done years ago, they allowed the company to remain dependent on Google.
From what I know, internal relationships among coworkers are poor. People either do whatever they want or nothing at all. If you try to bring new ideas to the CEO and you're not close to them, you're basically fucked up
With an organization being managed like this, there’s no path forward other than continued decline. Sadly, Mozilla is likely to die for all the reasons mentioned aboveThat Steve Teixeira guy seems all right. He successfully lead profitable division and fought against his employees getting laid off ....aaaand he's laid off too.
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Today [October 28, 2024] Germ announces pre-seed funding from investors K5 Global via partner Daniel Marcotte, Mozilla Ventures, Gaingels, and angel investors including Nick Sullivan, Jessica Millstone of Copper Wire Ventures, and Adam Sah.
Germ Network raises pre-seed funding from K5 Global, Mozilla Ventures — Germ Network
Former Apple privacy engineer Mark Xue teams up with ex-Stanford social media scholar Tessa Brown to put people in control of what they share online
Germ Network (www.germnetwork.com)
Looks like a step in the right direction. E2EE messaging is a worthy venture under the Mozilla umbrella.
Not sure why you are posting about it in this thread about AI.
