The encryption being crap really does not depend on the threat model. Sure, in some threat models you may not need e2ee at all but in that case, what's wrong with WhatsApp?

The issue with XMPP is that security really was an afterthought. Not only is e2ee an optional extension, but there are actually 2 incompatible extensions, each with multiple versions. Then you have some clients not implementing either, some clients implementing the older, less secure one. Some implement the newer one but older version of the spec with known issues. And of course, the few clients that implement it well become incompatible with other clients that don't if you enable e2ee, so it is disabled by default.

That is all before you start looking into security audits or metadata harvesting.

My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.

I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they've never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn't care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can't switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I'd just be alone there. What's the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they're not gonna switch now.

Just ditch WhatsApp. Don't give in to social pressure to install malware on your phone

My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.

My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.

SimpleX as well!

Your reasoning would hold up if 80% of xmpp wasn't running on Conversations or forks of it, that all support OMEMO and OpenPGP.

Your criticisms are too broad with few serious negatives. What makes extensions powerful is that they can easily change the rules without breaking the underlying system. If your client sucks, get another?

You have choices, but if your problem is metadata, whoooo boy.

If you're privacy focused, do not use matrix… The amount of metadata it leaks is... | Hacker News

(news.ycombinator.com)

Encryption on metadata · Issue #9133 · matrix-org/synapse

Timestamps, emoji reactions, message sender, read receipts, and possibly files are not encrypted in encrypted DMs and rooms. Please have encryption cover all of these things and not just the message itself.

GitHub (github.com)

(www.reddit.com)

After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.

It's still an American company, so it's not ideal. But it's still significantly better better than letting a tech giant like Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.

WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that. We can worry about the American elephant in the room later.

SimpleX as well!

Unfortunately the source code is not open

Wrong.

Open Source – Transparency Matters – Threema

The Threema apps are open source. Find out how to download and compile the source code, and learn more about reproducible builds.

Threema (threema.com)

I will use the opportunity to remind that Signal is operated by a non-profit in the jurisdiction called "the US". This could have implications.

A somewhat more anarchist option might be TOX. There is no single client, TOX is a protocol, you can choose from half a dozen clients. I personally use qTox.

Upside: no phone number required. No questions asked.

Downside: no servers to store and forward messages. You can talk if both parties are online.

I will use the opportunity to remind that Signal is operated by a non-profit in the jurisdiction called "the US". This could have implications.

A somewhat more anarchist option might be TOX. There is no single client, TOX is a protocol, you can choose from half a dozen clients. I personally use qTox.

Upside: no phone number required. No questions asked.

Downside: no servers to store and forward messages. You can talk if both parties are online.

SimpleX as well!

How about Delta Chat? At least as secure as Signal, open source, and decentralized.

Spam isn't a binary issue, where it either exists or doesn't. It could very well be the case that, without requiring a phone number, there'd be far more spam (since it'd be far easier to automatically create new accounts).

Again, do you have a better suggestion for spam & abuse prevention?

And still, aside from that - it doesn't really make sense to expect Signal to offer SMS integration just because it requires a phone number for spam prevention, when offering this integration would be detrimental towards the mission of Signal (offering secure messages).

it does make sense, actually. as they had that function when the app was first around. why do you think they have you sign up with a phone number in the first place?

also, it's not on me to solve every technical hurdle you make up. if you want to learn more about Spam Prevention methods, I can point you to some resources if you're truly interested.

I'm sorry that not everyone thinks Signal is a god app worthy of worship. its a message app, and its not the only one. it does stuff some people don't like. including me.