Study: Remote working benefits fathers while childless men miss sense of community
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I guess it's a poor choice of words but there's definite value in workplace camaraderie. Don't let your jadedness fuel the bosses' union busting.
Unions aren't community.
They're a necessary defence mechanism against capitalism.
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Not everyone hates life like you do. I hang out with co-workers all the time. Kept relationships will after I'm done.
Not everyone hates life like you do
Work isn't life.
It's the opposite of life (no, death is just its absence).
hang out with co-workers all the time
Bonding over shared trauma and Stockholm syndrome is not a good basis for a relationship (though there's probably no relationship other than you pestering them while they try to work).
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No we don't. Work is work, not fucking community.
I like my coworkers. They're cool. I just went to acro yoga with one, and go bouldering with another. We show up, talk shit, and get the job done - sometimes it's a good time. Sometimes we get our asses kicked. But that builds camradrie, too.
I will say, this is blue collar stuff. When I worked as a software dev, I definitely didn't care about spending much time with my coworkers.
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Unions aren't community.
They're a necessary defence mechanism against capitalism.
Humour is a defence mechanism. Altruism is a defence mechanism. And with those two, camaraderie is a given.
Also it would be a sorry state of affairs if workers under capitalism had their defence mechanisms, but not canalisation workers shovelling literal shit.
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Being childfree is its own reward.
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41 year old male, no kids, no wife or girlfriend, been work from home for 5 years now. I've never been happier and more productive.
I get my sense of community from my friends not my coworkers. This study is B.S.
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41 year old male, no kids, no wife or girlfriend, been work from home for 5 years now. I've never been happier and more productive.
I get my sense of community from my friends not my coworkers. This study is B.S.
You know there are always outliers because research often looks at populations in general and not the exact experience of a specific person. Unless it’s a case study but that’s different.
Either way that’s a really good thing for you, the modern world makes it difficult to make and keep close to friends.
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No one said “sole.” It’s about a sense of community between you and your coworkers, which is a very real and normal thing. It’s spelled out in the article very clearly:
losing that sense of workplace community had a greater impact on childless men
“Workplace community.”
I’m a dad working remote and I love the benefits but I ALSO miss the sense of community with my coworkers which I used to get from lunches together, sharing the train ride home, or just working side by side at our desks.
hmm, so having or not having kids have impact on your sence of workplace community during remote work?
Does it add up to you?
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You know there are always outliers because research often looks at populations in general and not the exact experience of a specific person. Unless it’s a case study but that’s different.
Either way that’s a really good thing for you, the modern world makes it difficult to make and keep close to friends.
True, and I was drawing on anecdotal evidence that I didn't elaborate on in my original comment. While I know there are people who do not do well or enjoy work from home, I have yet to meet those people, all my coworkers and friend group are loving work from home.
So a more accurate statement would have been, based on my personal experience along with with coworkers and my friend circle this study is B.S.
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Fathers versus childless men, rather than husbands vs unmarried men. Telling.
It's a wildly different thing, though.
Married vs. unmarried means you have a companion, but you still got the same demands on your life as before. You might have to arrange schedules, but that's about it. Your day has just as much free time as before, you can stay out just as long as before and your social opportunities aren't restricted due to the fact that you are married.
In fact, there's no difference at all between married vs. unmarried and in a relationship vs single. Getting married changes nothing in that regard.
Having kids, on the other hand, changes everything. Now your social activities are limited by your responsibilities towards the child(ren). Can't stay out until 2am if you know the kids will be awake at 7am and will wake you up 3 times in between. Can't take a random day off and do a day trip if the kid needs to be at school that day. Can't visit friends after work together with your partner if the kid needs to be in bed at 7pm. It's a massive limiter on social opportunities.
At the same time, spending time with the kids is pretty great in its own right, and that's what the article touches upon. If you are married but don't have kids, you might get your fill with your partner after work. If you have 5h or so every day with your partner from getting back from work until going to bed, that's a ton of quality time.
But if you return from work at 5pm and the kids go to bed at 7pm, then pretty much all the interaction you get is eating and preparing the kids for bed.
As a father, working from home means I can see my kids grow up, especially in their earlier years. It means I was there when they took their first steps. I'm there when they start talking. I can actually spend time with them, get close to them, be part of them growing up. I'm there when they cry, when they say the funniest stuff. You know, be with them when it matters.
With my wife, on the other hand, as much as I love her, I'm not going to miss a ton of really important things if I'm not around her 24/7. On the contrary, she's happy for any bit of actual alone time she gets.
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This was also my experience during the main sweep of the pandemic. It was so great getting to cut the commute and be home. Something I have luckily managed to largely continue. Prior to the pandemic my kid was in daycare pretty much 7:30-5:30 so it was really nice to not have to do that, plus during our lockdown we used to go for a family walk at lunchtime.
While some of the single guys I worked with hated staying home and were straight back in the office the moment they were allowed.
I think it's funny that I had the opposite experience. My coworkers who had kids couldn't wait to get back to the office, while the few of us youngsters who didn't wanted nothing but to keep working remotely. Probably why those few of us left immediately when it became clear they were going to force everyone back.
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I know this a gross oversimplification, but:
"Remote working benefit those with a reason to stay home, but doesn't for those who don't have a reason to stay home" seems to be the general idea of the headline.
edit: I think this is the study they're talking about, please double check the source before quoting: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36718392/
oh yea heard this question asked in reddit on multiple instances, the ones that dont stay at home tend to waste time at watercooler chat, gossip,,,etc, not productive work, just that interaction they cant live without.
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41 year old male, no kids, no wife or girlfriend, been work from home for 5 years now. I've never been happier and more productive.
I get my sense of community from my friends not my coworkers. This study is B.S.
Yeah, you gotta have friends that are close by and you can get out with or they can come over. If you don't... Sometimes it feels lonely. But to be honest, you kinda get used to it.
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Not everyones ideal life is to at all times be alone.
the reasons they give are often super selfish, it was asked on many subs over the pandemic, they want to interact with said co-workers even if its unproductive and said coworkers do not want to make chit chat with said male workers.
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I think it's funny that I had the opposite experience. My coworkers who had kids couldn't wait to get back to the office, while the few of us youngsters who didn't wanted nothing but to keep working remotely. Probably why those few of us left immediately when it became clear they were going to force everyone back.
probably because they dont want to deal with thier kids 24/7, screaming,c rying,,,etc.
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sense of community between you and your coworkers, which is a very real and normal thing
No it fucking ain't.
Forcing people together doesn't create community, it creates stress, and resentment, and burnout, and migraines.
“Workplace community.”
Biggest oxymoron I've ever seen since military intelligence.
ALSO miss the sense of community with my coworkers which I used to get from lunches together, sharing the train ride home, or just working side by side at our desks
Oh, you're one of those fucking extroverts.
I can't begin to imagine the extent to which your poor coworkers must have despised you while you constantly bothered them while they tried to work, or have a quick decompressing lunch, or disconnect after a long day of work during the train ride home, the poor bastards. As if work wasn't bad enough by itself.
if you hear the shit coworkers talk behind peoples back, you really dont want to interact with them most of the time, its just to save face by being nice, eventhough coworkers might not want to talk to you, someone like op might be annoying to them for whatever reason.
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oh yea heard this question asked in reddit on multiple instances, the ones that dont stay at home tend to waste time at watercooler chat, gossip,,,etc, not productive work, just that interaction they cant live without.
I'm guessing you've got a study that backs that assertion up as well?
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Not everyone hates life like you do
Work isn't life.
It's the opposite of life (no, death is just its absence).
hang out with co-workers all the time
Bonding over shared trauma and Stockholm syndrome is not a good basis for a relationship (though there's probably no relationship other than you pestering them while they try to work).
You people live such lonely lonely lives. I can't imagine existing just hating everyone like you. It's quite sad.
Trauma bonding
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sense of community between you and your coworkers, which is a very real and normal thing
No it fucking ain't.
Forcing people together doesn't create community, it creates stress, and resentment, and burnout, and migraines.
“Workplace community.”
Biggest oxymoron I've ever seen since military intelligence.
ALSO miss the sense of community with my coworkers which I used to get from lunches together, sharing the train ride home, or just working side by side at our desks
Oh, you're one of those fucking extroverts.
I can't begin to imagine the extent to which your poor coworkers must have despised you while you constantly bothered them while they tried to work, or have a quick decompressing lunch, or disconnect after a long day of work during the train ride home, the poor bastards. As if work wasn't bad enough by itself.
Imagine being this vitriolic in response to someone's personal anecdote.
The person you responded to said they did find a sense of community like the study describes. Nowhere in there did they argue that anyone should be forced to go back to an office nor even that an office spot be made available to people.
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True, and I was drawing on anecdotal evidence that I didn't elaborate on in my original comment. While I know there are people who do not do well or enjoy work from home, I have yet to meet those people, all my coworkers and friend group are loving work from home.
So a more accurate statement would have been, based on my personal experience along with with coworkers and my friend circle this study is B.S.
Tbf there's definitely some confirmation bias in there because a person who didn't enjoy being remote probably wouldn't seek that type of job
