Former GM Executive: BYD cars are good in terms of design, features, price, quality. If we let BYD into the U.S. market, it could end up destroying american manufacturers
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A lot of these subsidies (both in the US and China) are implicit. Chinese state rail networks operate at cost, allowing cheap transportation of materials and labor. American borrowing is heavily subsidized through the Fed Credit Window, which keeps rates in the low single digits while corporate bonds and consumer loans can be 2x-30x as high. Both countries cut corners on environmental enforcement and subsidize waste management. Both countries subsidize education and incentive R&D through their university systems.
The real benefit BYD enjoys - even above its Chinese peers - is vertical integration. They own everything from mining interests to technology patents to dealerships. This is a deliberate consequence of Chinese trade policy, which requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital. Consequently, Berkshire Hathaway - a large early investor in BYD - cannot dictate Chinese vehicle manufacturing policy from a private office in Omaha. Chinese locals benefit from the innovation, the domestic capital, the experienced labor force (which can migrate to local competitors), and the increased economic activity it produces.
China is insourcing it's wealth aggregation, which has a cyclical compound benefit over time.
requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital
this also means that chinese companies are notorious for stealing IP. it’s easy to be cheap when you don’t do the R&D - you just fast track to producing the product
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What do you think Walmart does when they enter a new market, the eat losses till the local competition folds and they are the only option left
Your point is? They are both shit, agreed. The fact that we have asshole corps here, doesn't mean we need more of them. We need to fight Walmart, not bring in the Walmart of cars.
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you give a source for your Chinese working hours.
I gave you an answer.
You're the sinophobic troll. And you can't tell me shit.
You go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.Not sure why you get off on trolling that china does not have its own labor issues
Jack Ma defends the 'blessing' of a 12-hour working day
Alibaba's billionaire founder sparked intense debate after pressing for a 9am to 9pm working day and a six-day week.
(www.bbc.com)
cute troll
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When the only goal by law is maximize profits, the motivation tends to favor minimizing cost. Change the rules, and enforce a new set of values. Only then will the situation improve.
That and the fact that these people aren't patriots. They're looters. They don't believe in America per se. They believe in the economic system that advantages them and disadvantages others. It's just that simple. America is no longer a land of opportunity. Perpetual poverty is their goal. Keeping people down is the point.
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Not an American, but it's worth saying that despite their labour market's galling shortfalls, they don't have a culture of 12 hour days for 6 days per week. Many work much less, and those who do pull those kinds of hours are typically tradesmen/women who make pretty good bank. Those types of jobs are being systematically eliminated by corporations, but I digress.
PSA @Bloomcole@lemmy.world is a troll.
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It doesn't make ours any better or cheaper, just everything else more expensive.
it also makes your domestic products more expensive because cars etc still have to source components and industrial machines from internationally so it’s tariffs all the way down
And if they didn't source internationally, they'd have to pay local labor prices, so it's more expensive regardless of the direction they choose to go. If you make imports expensive enough, local goods will become more attractive, sure, but not cheaper.
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My old boss was a huge man who went around in a little yellow convertible. We called him Noddy.
May I suggest calling him Fireman Sam?
Yeah, our VP rides around in a 2-door coupe and he's very tall, while my coworker (who is shorter) drives a big SUV because "he doesn't fit in smaller cars." I'm also tall and drive a Toyota Prius, which is small.
At the end of the day, none of that's legitimate, it's just an excuse to buy the car you prefer.
Larger cars should cost more because they take up more space, wear out the roads faster, and impact the environment more.
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USA is already at nightmare level, and the big difference is the USA will use it against you where China can't really reach you
Anyways, I would appreciate any proof or comparison between the two
Same. I'm looking into an EV, and I just want a simple car that goes and stops when I instruct it to. I don't need any kind of always-online service, I don't need cameras, etc, I just need to get to work and back.
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Not sure why you get off on trolling that china does not have its own labor issues
Jack Ma defends the 'blessing' of a 12-hour working day
Alibaba's billionaire founder sparked intense debate after pressing for a 9am to 9pm working day and a six-day week.
(www.bbc.com)
cute troll
LOL an article from 2019 from the sinophobic BBC about this one guy who wants this system.
People say a lot, that doesn't make it reality. That system is illegal in China.
Totally pathetic. Is that what you got loser troll? -
PSA @Bloomcole@lemmy.world is a troll.
PSA this InternetCitizen2 is a troll.
Askfor a source and this clown gives you this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47934513
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You think Americans can't change, just look at German Automakers. They are stuck in Perpetual denial. VW only moved electric because of the massive diesel scandal, otherwise they also would have been like every other car manufacturer.
Yes, but nobody ever expected Germany to be quick and adapt. Germany does not do that in general. It takes something that exists, perfects it, and then sells the perfection of the existing thing, ideally until really not a single person on the world needs it anymore. US on the other hand, has the reputation where innovation begins and does wonders. I am asking myself, where is the innovation in their autoindustry? Last thing was actually Tesla itself, when they started producing first electric cars.
It is the same situation, but the expectation is completely opposite.
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That might be true, but also a certain revolutionary purging of world politics would do a lot to return to something close to that. The golden age happened after the world war and decolonization, when western countries were full of veterans, and laws governing their lives were much simpler.
Internet-assisted direct democracy, open borders, open trade, radical changes in patent laws, simpler laws generally - all this can exist.
We simply have too much legacy everywhere strangling development.
The bad guys are trying to make it appear that the only legacy that can be stripped is that of French revolution ideals, human rights and civilization. That actually we don't have to strip, that is all good. Just them.
It's normal. Sometimes humans need surgeries, and sometimes a part of an old building has to be dismantled - maybe there's a pipe in the wall that leaks, or maybe you need to retrieve a human skeleton found using some new technology, whatever. And you throw out garbage regularly.
So a reform for direct democracy (with ranked choice between variants having, say, 1000+ initial supporters in some incubator to get to the vote itself, because we have computers, storage and connectivity to make everything desirable for such) IMHO would go a long way to fixing half the problems in the world.
We simply have too much legacy money everywhere strangling development.
I think that's the crux of it. Nobody with money to do big things is asking, "What does the world need?" They're always asking, "What can I convince the world it needs so it will give me even more money, and how can I retain exclusive rights to it?"
The human race absolutely has the capacity to turn the world into a wonderful, plentiful place for everybody, but those with the means of starting that are more motivated to acquire more and more for themselves, and most of the common people don't trust the world enough to entertain sweeping proposals because what if it's a trick or just doesn't work?
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Even if they changed how would they win?
They're just too expensive to manufacture as compared to chinese ones.
Expensive is not a problem it it's followed by the appropriate quality. Also, US should be far more able to use tech to automate and make efficient, same as China can use cheap labour. In the end, a robot is a one-time fee, doesn't get sick, and can work 24/7, easy and fast to learn new processes. Long term a robot will always outpeform a human.
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It brings up a valid point. Assembly line manufacturing will soon require massive automation lines to remain profitable, and without massive government assistance in not just money, but education and training, these kinds of automation factories will likely never be fully realized here.
They don't need any government assistance, they just need to take the millions they pay out to stakeholders, and invest them into automation. The money is there, just being handed out to a few people. Why should the government pay for something that sits on tons of cash but won't use it?
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American car companies are focusing on their highest profit center, massive trucks. Milking that market for the short term.
….. regardless of their long term survival. It seems extremely short sighted.
American companies exist to maximize shareholder value. Remember that. There is no company, doing anything, for the better of the world or humanity. At least not as the primary motivation.
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They've got to keep their profit margins, or the CEO's and shareholders might need to take a paycut.
Oh no! Anyway...
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requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital
this also means that chinese companies are notorious for stealing IP. it’s easy to be cheap when you don’t do the R&D - you just fast track to producing the product
chinese companies are notorious for stealing IP
American companies sell the ip to China in exchange for access to capital and labor, then claim they've been robbed when the Chinese firms innovate and expand on the patents they've acquired.
The end result is a car company that produces better vehicles than anything an American or Japanese or German company can manage.
Curiously, these superior vehicles are "stolen" while the Teslas keep exploding under home grown technology.
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Tbf notoriously China subsidizes BYD to net loss so its not exactly capitalism.
fair game IMHO. if you look at china as one big agent, then they can indeed act like that.
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Bailouts are unacceptable period. Trained workers, factories, factory hardware, logistics specialists, engineers, patents and so on - they all remain in the economy. That a company fails and goes bankrupt is not a bad thing. It's just that company. Not the industry as a whole. If there are no additional mechanisms.
Somehow Americans seem to have forgotten that the kind of "capitalism" which gets defended is about this exactly - a company goes bankrupt, too bad. There are other companies which will hire its workers and buy its assets. Possibly new companies created by its former employees. Its shareholders have gambled and lost, well, their problem. That's what an unregulated market is, by the way, and not bailouts to big fish and horse dicks for small fish.
If something works differently - workers don't find a new place to work in, factories go to scrap metal, engineers go flip burgers, patents are collected by trolls, and new companies are not being created, - then something has been broken by an existing policy.
Patents are the worst of it, but also non-compete clauses, legal impediments for creating new businesses, legal expenses making it harder, - these things have to be removed.
I mean, people on Lemmy love to dream of something like what you list, those things are good, but maybe fixing some basic things about what you already have is no less useful. Especially since these fixes do not cost any money to maintain, while, well, pensions and healthcare do.
why bail out the companies and not the people?
(/s, i was joking, of course in US companies value more than human life)
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Tbf notoriously China subsidizes BYD to net loss so its not exactly capitalism.
The US subsidizes farms and petroleum.
