They support IMAP. Which means, IMAP client can read your mails from the server.

Proton mail does not support IMAP. Because your emails are encrypted on the server.

Again, unless you add a layer of encryption (assuming the recipient understands it, too), it's plaintext. On the servers.

Protonmail doesn’t claim that non-protonmail email is end to end encrypted. Any emails sent to a regular email without third party encryption will be plain text through the SMTP server, but they don’t store it. So in this case they are still not storing your emails in plaintext. Your recipient will, but that’s out of Protonmail’s control.

shows up in full plaintext on their SMTP server. Whatever they do after that (and we've established it's not client-controlled encryption), they have access to it.

You’ve not established that at all. Protonmail stores that message with client side encryption and they have no access to it. Nothing you’ve brought up here suggests that anything is stored in plaintext on Protonmail servers.

They support IMAP. Which means, IMAP client can read your mails from the server.

Proton mail does not support IMAP. Because your emails are encrypted on the server.

Again, unless you add a layer of encryption (assuming the recipient understands it, too), it's plaintext. On the servers.

Protonmail doesn’t claim that non-protonmail email is end to end encrypted. Any emails sent to a regular email without third party encryption will be plain text through the SMTP server, but they don’t store it. So in this case they are still not storing your emails in plaintext. Your recipient will, but that’s out of Protonmail’s control.

shows up in full plaintext on their SMTP server. Whatever they do after that (and we've established it's not client-controlled encryption), they have access to it.

You’ve not established that at all. Protonmail stores that message with client side encryption and they have no access to it. Nothing you’ve brought up here suggests that anything is stored in plaintext on Protonmail servers.

There is no way to retrieve your mail using IMAP on a regular client if they're encrypted on the server.

That is probably why you can’t retrieve your emails using IMAP from a regular client.

And Gmail can retrieve your mails from proton using IMAP. It's even in their own (proton's) documentation.

I don’t think it can. Where in the documentation did you find that?

There's some good discussion about the security in the comments, so I'm just going to say that Lumo's Android app required the Play Store and GPlay Services. I uninstalled.

It's also quite censored. I gave Proton's cute chatbot a chance, but I'm not impressed.

SMH

No one is saying it's encrypted when processed, because that's not a thing that exists.

How much longer until the AI bubbles pops? I'm tired of this.

Proton has always been shitty. They don't even give you the encryption keys. Always been a red flag for me.

Not your keys, not your encryption.

Ok yeah thats a far cry from Proton actually “Having your unencrypted emails on their servers” as if they’re not encrypted at rest.

There’s the standard layer of trust you need to have in a third party when you’re not self hosting. Proton has proven so far that they do in fact encrypt your emails and haven’t given any up to authorities when ordered to so I’m not sure where the issue is. I thought they were caught not encrypting them or something.

The worst part is that once again, proton is trying to convince its users that it's more secure than it really is. You have to wonder what else they are lying or deceiving about.

is not typically a good way to sell things.

Ah yes, telling the truth is not good for sales, therefore deception is ok.

Yeah, it seems we won't agree here. Have a nice day.

End to end encryption of a interaction with a chat-bot would mean the company doesn't decrypt your messages to it, operates on the encrypted text, gets an encrypted response which only you can decrypt and sends it to you. You then decrypt the response.

So yes. It would require operating on encrypted data.

You said yourself that it wasn't actually wrong or deceptive or inaccurate, but rather "confusing."

read your own words.

We need to call for an audit on Protons policy and see if they actually do what they say, that way we can know for almost certain that everything is good as they say

And Gmail can retrieve your mails from proton using IMAP. It’s even in their own (proton’s) documentation.

I don’t think it can. Where in the documentation did you find that?

An online search brought me here : https://www.getmailbird.com/setup/en/access-protonmail-com-via-imap-smtp which did looks like a documentation page about how to do exactly that. Obviously, it has nothing to do with them, and the actual details makes no sense the lower you get in the page. I've been had

They still can see most mails transit from their service in plaintext in both directions, though, which remain a privacy issue, but it has more to do with email protocols than anything.

I mean we know from documented events that Proton doesn’t store you emails in plain text because there have been Swiss orders to turn over information which they have to comply with and they’ve never turned in emails, because they can’t.

Do you have a source for that? I know they handed over an IP address, but I haven't heard about them handing over an email.

I'm not impressed by Proton at all tbh. There are plenty of reasons to dislike them. Here is a nice article about it:

https://マリウス.com/i-do-not-recommend-proton-mail/

Disclaimer: always do your own research as well.