Masculine influencer. Another masculine influencer. Not going for "male influencer" here that's just the top of my head list of people who a) happen to end up in my youtube feed and b) look really cool to pubescent boys. Silverback energy: Big, strong, just, kind.

Respectfully, your hostile and reactionary tone demonstrated quite well that you had no intention of discussing things in a rational manner. You toss around terms like 'redpill' like they're Halloween candy, and it demonstrates that even having the discussion is enough to set off your temper. I even gave you an example of the imbalance in economic opportunity favoring women and minorities, and you just ignored it.

And that's fine.

Be angry, but the least you could do is try to be productive.

The problem is the systemic impoverishment of young men is the root cause of all this, and that is what needs to be fixed if you want to fix misogyny.

It's a little over 50% in the US, and is largely due to women out performing men in school.

I think this person sees someone pointing out the problems facing young men and automatically thinks 'incel'. It can be disorienting to see people who don't hate women advocating for young men.

I've seen two things out of "Men's Health Awareness Month":

• The rainbow hair squad bawling about "No it's Pride Month"
• People posting lazy image macros with lies like "It's okay to show your feelings" in them.

I have no fucking interest in National Whatever Day or Something Awareness Month. They always end up an exercise in worthless busybody tokenism, and the more of them we put in place the more hilarious collisions we're going to find. I got a great idea, let's start observing National Temperence Week as the first week of May, so that we can generate pointless anger at the people drinking Corona and margaritas on Cinco De Mayo. I can hear Latinos now saying "Oh what the fuck have the white people made themselves mad about now?"

The messaging I have seen about "Men's Health Awareness Month" has mostly been addressed to men saying things like "It's okay to share, it's okay to cry, there are five lights." His lived experience has shown that no, it is not. He is overwhelmingly expected to be stable, and any display of weakness will permanently lessen his worth in anyone's eyes. Telling HIM to open up when those are the consequences he knows await, addressing the problem as a change HE needs to make is just pissing up a rope.

I'm going to use the movie Fight Club as an illustrative device here: Pretty much all of the men in this setting find their social and emotional needs unmet by the structure of society. The buzzword you see thrown around today for this is "lack of third spaces." The men in the testicular cancer group have basically only one pain to share with each other: loss of family, marriages, jobs etc. The men respond strongly positively to Fight Club, which at first is basically an underground bare knuckle boxing ring started by a mentally ill man. I have a hypothesis that something like a pickup game of basketball would have served much the same function, that what the men in this setting really need is time to do physical activities with other men, to form those bonds the way men actually do.

On that note, I'll be right back.

Gentlemen, let's go on a hike

I only see women being pushed into places with traditionally male majority, but not men being pushed into places with traditional female majority.

As a positive counter-example, I'd like to give a shoutout to German childcare. In 2022, 17.9% of under 20yolds, 12,6% of under 30yold childcare professionals were men, contrast with 2% among 60 and older. There's been an active effort both from the professional organisations as well as operators to increase the ratio, right-out masterplanned it, and they're making strides. As a side-effect: Plenty of young female childcare workers now don't feel weird at all about wrestling with the boys. Not that "boys need movement because their gross motor skills develop before fine motor skills" was unknown back in my days but the vibe was either "grandma watching you build wood block towers" or "grandma watching you at the playground".

There's three aspects to this: They recognised that "women know better than men when it comes to childcare" is BS and recognition was given to masculine styles of parenting, with that the pattern of dealing with the few men that were in the field by "promoting them out of sight", that is, into administration, was abolished, and finally an active push to advertise the job to men.

Not sure whether the ratio will ever reach 50:50 or whether that's even important at all, stabilising at 1/3rd or such would be plenty to ensure that things are even-keeled. If you rather become a construction worker I'm not going to tell you to go into childcare instead, and vice versa, not everything that's not 50:50 is due to gatekeeping. Women aren't going to become saturation divers en masse, and that's fine.

A commercial incentive?

If you want to commercialize solving the ills of society, you end up with death camps as being simply the end result of efficiency.

If you want to solve the problems of various demographics rather then viewing them as gender-specific instances in order to benefit the whole of society you get, among other benefits, a lot less genocide.

You make some good points, but i cant resist the thought experiment:

Is there even an incentive for solving women's problems? Patriarchy can use women to portray the ultimate evil; influencers can use that portrayal to criticize women, engage in rage bait, get attention and secure brand deals.

Capitalism can appease men to promote consumerism wrapped in misogyny. Corporations can capitalize on women's loneliness and low self-worth.

I have noticed that women with low self-worth find meaning in work, which ultimately profits corporations, the money they will earn will be expanded on consumerisms/additions which again can be profited by capitalism and corporate.

The rich can have as many resources as they want, so why solve it? Other than individuals (women) taking matters in their own hands and rescuing each other I don't think there is enough incentive to help women as community or whole

Is there even an incentive for solving men's problems?

What are men's problems? What problem do we suffer that also doesn't affect women?

Feminism can use men to portray the ultimate evil; influencers can use that portrayal to criticize men, engage in rage bait, get attention and secure brand deals.

Isn't that what you are doing to feminist right now? Isn't that what the article is talking about with the man-o-sphere?

Capitalism can appease women to promote consumerism wrapped in feminism. Corporations can capitalize on men's loneliness and low self-worth.

Lol, like we men are immune from corporations promoting masculinity? Old spice, axe body spray, every sports based commercial..... What gender do you think the majority of the CEO for these companies are?

have noticed that men with low self-worth find meaning in work, which ultimately profits corporations, the money they will earn will be expanded on consumerisms/additions which again can be profited by capitalism and corporate.

Capitalism isn't a fucking gender problem.....it is the thing making everyone's lives miserable. If we wanted to examine gender in capitalism we can take a look at which of the genders gains more from the system. What percent of the oligarchs are men, how many billionaires are men, how many senators and judges that keep the system going..... it's mostly dudes.

The rich can have as many resources as they want, so why solve it? Other than individuals (men) taking matters in their own hands and rescuing each other I don't think there is enough incentive to help men as community or whole

And the rich switch genders or something? Women can't be part of the struggle against capitalism? What is wrong with you guys, do you not have mothers, sisters, women in your lives who are just friends?

I can't be the only one here who thinks this is insane, right?

Young white men are being squeezed out of the ownership class for the first time and it's because it's the only demographic that hasn't already been squeezed at this late stage of capitalism. The problem isn't with women, it is the economic system that dangles a carrot for some, so they'll wield the stick against others....and we're all out of carrots. Welcome to the party, everyone else has been getting the stick the whole fucking time.

Exactly.....that's been the status quo for young white men only. People of color and women have been getting the shit end of the stick the whole time.

So if a company traditionally had 10 men employees and now has committed to having gender equality, you see this as 5 jobs where men are no longer considered, rather than it historically being 10 jobs where women weren't considered?

Your argument and vitriole is a nice example of weaponized self-righteousness. You think because you're aware of a class of people that has a disadvantage in labor, that makes your opinion on that group more valuable than others, and instead of having the conversation about labor or why some men fall prey to bullshit, because of vitriole like this that serves only to alienate, you're playing right into the hands of people who divide labor and reap profits.

Lol, you aren't accepting their argument because they didn't say please and thank you?

You are accepting that women are a more disadvantaged labour class, but are being a prissy little prick because they are upset about it? That's the softest shit I've ever seen.

Show some class solidarity for your sisters, the most disadvantaged need to be lifted first. Stop whining like a 4 year old, we men have every advantage in this system compared to our counterparts. Though I'd hardly acknowledge nearly anyone in this thread as a man. Weak shit.

From the 70's to a few months ago, governments have made it a fundamental priority to elevate women and minorities, and it's worked. (Go look at the demographics of college enrollment, at least here in the US, if you don't believe me.)

And when exactly did those college enrollment demographics change? Oh yeah, the moment college degrees became worthless. White men are choosing not to go to college, they aren't being forced, were not running out of colleges.

I'm arguing that to fix misogyny you have to fix the fundamental economic crises affecting young people

Well, you're not just saying that..... If we were to say start a program to fix the economic crisis that is effecting the youth, how would you go about doing that? Oh by targeting the most disadvantaged demographics.....oh no, that would be..DEI.

blaming young men and pretending these problems simply don't exist.

You are the one pretending as if this was only a problem for young white men. You're just taking your licks for the first time and being a baby about it.

I can't believe how much shit you are getting while having perfectly valid and rational claims. The fact this fucking chode is claiming your being reactionary while he froths at the mouth with accusations nof misandry is making me feel insane.

You are being too kind, but I will use the privilege reserved for middle aged man to fucking yell at emotional little boys throwing tantrums.

In nearly every society on earth, since the beginning of recorded history..
Men have achieved nearly a totalitarian monopoly in nearly every hierarchy of power.

Even today, what gender are the majority of ceo, the congressmen, the senator, the judges, prosecutors, and the police? Examine the leadership of nearly any hierarchical body of control and the majority of these positions are men...... So what power is attacking men, what industry, what laws....If it's men attacking young men....then it's not a gender issue, it's a class issue you fucking children.

problem is the systemic impoverishment of young men is the root cause of all this, and that is what needs to be fixed if you want to fix misogyny.

You are using misogyny as a negotiation tactic? "Guess will just have to let bad things happen to you until boys get their treats again......."

What a fucking loser. Can't cope with not getting insta middle class for nothing so they become a reactionary chode..... Real great class solidarity bro.

Eh. Nothin' to lose.

What are men’s problems? What problem do we suffer that also doesn’t affect women?

Women have strong support movement on their side. It's not something they gain only through their sex, but rather something they gain I think mostly due to the same gender stereotypes that also act against them.

Same stereotypes which isolate men and make them suffer in silence and alone, making showing any sign of weakness a fatal mistake.

Isn’t that what you are doing to feminist right now? Isn’t that what the article is talking about with the man-o-sphere?

I honestly don't see your point here - what commenter above you said is right, and sure as hell they didn't mention that it doesn't work the other way around.

Lol, like we men are immune from corporations promoting masculinity? Old spice, axe body spray, every sports based commercial… What gender do you think the majority of the CEO for these companies are?

What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity. Also, as far as I understand it, what you quoted above this part is just continuation of the point above it, nothing to add here.

Capitalism isn’t a fucking gender problem…it is the thing making everyone’s lives miserable. If we wanted to examine gender in capitalism we can take a look at which of the genders gains more from the system. What percent of the oligarchs are men, how many billionaires are men, how many senators and judges that keep the system going… it’s mostly dudes.

Yeah, but affects genders differently. Men are eaten, ground to a paste and then spat out. Women are bellitled and their work is seen as substandard. One side doesn't make the other any less, both are problems and commenter above you didn't say men have it worse, just that they suffer from it.

And the rich switch genders or something? Women can’t be part of the struggle against capitalism? What is wrong with you guys, do you not have mothers, sisters, women in your lives who are just friends?

What commenter above you is alluding to is the point of the whole post - Men do not get help. We do not have the same societal networks that women have to get together and stand up. And even if women decided to fight for us, it's for naught until we are able to start getting up by ourselves.

Young white men are being squeezed out of the ownership class for the first time and it’s because it’s the only demographic that hasn’t already been squeezed at this late stage of capitalism. The problem isn’t with women, it is the economic system that dangles a carrot for some, so they’ll wield the stick against others…and we’re all out of carrots. Welcome to the party, everyone else has been getting the stick the whole fucking time.

'kay. What's with that obsession with women? Commenter above you mentioned once that feminism can use men to portray them as evil, which they do because guess who makes them suffer most, and yet due to that you immediately went and threw everything they said as if they did nothing else but accuse women of men's suffering.

All in all, as far as I understand the comment above you, all boils down to:

• Women gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
• Corporations gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
• Rich gain, and even if not then loose nothing on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.

Which are answers to question at the beggining:

Is there even an incentive for solving men’s problems?

IMO, the incentive is for us to move our asses, take notes from women and build our own support networks. But that is actually fought against by conservatists/right-wingers, because lonely and lost men make cheap and easily influenced canon fodder.

Lol, by who?

Who would even be able to enforce this..... The politicians who are mostly men, the CEO who own silicon valley....mostly men. The police who would enforce the law.....oh also men.

You guys are just scared of your own shadows... Some real soft shit going on in this thread.

If a woman is going homeless there are resources. If it's a man there's almost nothing. I work serving the unhoused.

In my experience the problem isn't the masculinity influencers. Those are just the symptom of misandry in media and a near-total lack of support in society for men, especially young men. When you go on social media almost all discussion concerning men is about how they are the root of all evil, and everything they do is wrong. It's a never ending stream of shaming with no clear way out.

Oh yeah....I'm totally feeling that in this thread and every other one on this site talking about gender. Sure really needs like it's women attacking us men and not the other way round /s. It's not like the largest social platform on the Internet (reddit), and the largest podcast on the Internet(Joe Rogan) and the largest news network (fox) is biased against women or anything.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't: If you try to defend yourself or talk about your own problems as a man, it is labeled as misogyny. "Be vulnerable and open up" they say but if you do it's "don't center men you privileged fuck" or "you're being a crybaby".

By who? This is pure projection. Look at who is being up votes and down votes in this very thread.

this pressure is an impossible equation to solve for a young man who has been pushed by misandrists into insecurity and longs to be accepted in his community. Not just because society's demands are internally inconsistent, but because they clash with patriarchal ideals among the typical women you'll meet IRL.

Is the misandrist in the room with us right now? Where are these misandrist? I'm man, I don't have any misandrist hounding me. But maybe that's because I don't consider women defending themselves as misandry.......

I'm past 40 and while in my head I still consider myself progressive, I used to show it much more when I was younger. I was honest about my insecurities, I would try not to take up too much space as a man, would try to split responsibilities equally, and so on.

As a fellow middle aged man, I can already tell you have an epic serving of highly divorced man energy. Being progressive isn't about withdrawing and shriveling up like an old wrinkly penis. It is about defending the people who need it and making space for people who deserve it, it is about class solidarity.

At every turn this has caused me problems in relationships, not least with my wife of 10 years who left me for some muscular macho guy because she "doesn't feel like I can take care of her".

Yep, I was right. I am a "muscular macho guy", you know what I also am.... A feminist. Don't hate on feminism just because you have no game.

to balance on the needle of acting like I'm not as progressive as I am so women don't "get the ick", while not tripping into what would be labeled misogyny. It's an extremely difficult game to play and it frustrates me to no end that this is where we're at. I'm moving in soon with a woman who I've been dating for a couple of years and it's clear that she desires that I take a leadership position in the home, whereas I'm just longing for a partner who will share the burden with me instead of becoming my subject.

Get the ick? You said you were fourty...right? You can be masculine and still be a feminist dude, women like being respected.....you know because they're people. I can tell you this now, if you keep taking relationships advice from a bunch of influencers, it's not going to end well.

You can be masculine, have class solidarity, and be a feminist. I rebuilt my own house, work with my hands, lift 3-4 times a week, and am currently building an AR-15.....I'm also a leftist who believes feminism is a foundational theory of class consciousness.

Guess what, Ive been happily married to a professional dancer for 10 years.... maybe the feminism isn't the fucking problem bro.

Having been homeless before, the resources were not different for me or my partner, male, at the time. Separate sleeping quarters obviously. But the same exact resources.

Genuinely what are you talking about...Where is this?