Your argument and vitriole is a nice example of weaponized self-righteousness. You think because you're aware of a class of people that has a disadvantage in labor, that makes your opinion on that group more valuable than others, and instead of having the conversation about labor or why some men fall prey to bullshit, because of vitriole like this that serves only to alienate, you're playing right into the hands of people who divide labor and reap profits.

Lol, you aren't accepting their argument because they didn't say please and thank you?

You are accepting that women are a more disadvantaged labour class, but are being a prissy little prick because they are upset about it? That's the softest shit I've ever seen.

Show some class solidarity for your sisters, the most disadvantaged need to be lifted first. Stop whining like a 4 year old, we men have every advantage in this system compared to our counterparts. Though I'd hardly acknowledge nearly anyone in this thread as a man. Weak shit.

From the 70's to a few months ago, governments have made it a fundamental priority to elevate women and minorities, and it's worked. (Go look at the demographics of college enrollment, at least here in the US, if you don't believe me.)

And when exactly did those college enrollment demographics change? Oh yeah, the moment college degrees became worthless. White men are choosing not to go to college, they aren't being forced, were not running out of colleges.

I'm arguing that to fix misogyny you have to fix the fundamental economic crises affecting young people

Well, you're not just saying that..... If we were to say start a program to fix the economic crisis that is effecting the youth, how would you go about doing that? Oh by targeting the most disadvantaged demographics.....oh no, that would be..DEI.

blaming young men and pretending these problems simply don't exist.

You are the one pretending as if this was only a problem for young white men. You're just taking your licks for the first time and being a baby about it.

I can't believe how much shit you are getting while having perfectly valid and rational claims. The fact this fucking chode is claiming your being reactionary while he froths at the mouth with accusations nof misandry is making me feel insane.

You are being too kind, but I will use the privilege reserved for middle aged man to fucking yell at emotional little boys throwing tantrums.

In nearly every society on earth, since the beginning of recorded history..
Men have achieved nearly a totalitarian monopoly in nearly every hierarchy of power.

Even today, what gender are the majority of ceo, the congressmen, the senator, the judges, prosecutors, and the police? Examine the leadership of nearly any hierarchical body of control and the majority of these positions are men...... So what power is attacking men, what industry, what laws....If it's men attacking young men....then it's not a gender issue, it's a class issue you fucking children.

problem is the systemic impoverishment of young men is the root cause of all this, and that is what needs to be fixed if you want to fix misogyny.

You are using misogyny as a negotiation tactic? "Guess will just have to let bad things happen to you until boys get their treats again......."

What a fucking loser. Can't cope with not getting insta middle class for nothing so they become a reactionary chode..... Real great class solidarity bro.

Eh. Nothin' to lose.

What are men’s problems? What problem do we suffer that also doesn’t affect women?

Women have strong support movement on their side. It's not something they gain only through their sex, but rather something they gain I think mostly due to the same gender stereotypes that also act against them.

Same stereotypes which isolate men and make them suffer in silence and alone, making showing any sign of weakness a fatal mistake.

Isn’t that what you are doing to feminist right now? Isn’t that what the article is talking about with the man-o-sphere?

I honestly don't see your point here - what commenter above you said is right, and sure as hell they didn't mention that it doesn't work the other way around.

Lol, like we men are immune from corporations promoting masculinity? Old spice, axe body spray, every sports based commercial… What gender do you think the majority of the CEO for these companies are?

What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity. Also, as far as I understand it, what you quoted above this part is just continuation of the point above it, nothing to add here.

Capitalism isn’t a fucking gender problem…it is the thing making everyone’s lives miserable. If we wanted to examine gender in capitalism we can take a look at which of the genders gains more from the system. What percent of the oligarchs are men, how many billionaires are men, how many senators and judges that keep the system going… it’s mostly dudes.

Yeah, but affects genders differently. Men are eaten, ground to a paste and then spat out. Women are bellitled and their work is seen as substandard. One side doesn't make the other any less, both are problems and commenter above you didn't say men have it worse, just that they suffer from it.

And the rich switch genders or something? Women can’t be part of the struggle against capitalism? What is wrong with you guys, do you not have mothers, sisters, women in your lives who are just friends?

What commenter above you is alluding to is the point of the whole post - Men do not get help. We do not have the same societal networks that women have to get together and stand up. And even if women decided to fight for us, it's for naught until we are able to start getting up by ourselves.

Young white men are being squeezed out of the ownership class for the first time and it’s because it’s the only demographic that hasn’t already been squeezed at this late stage of capitalism. The problem isn’t with women, it is the economic system that dangles a carrot for some, so they’ll wield the stick against others…and we’re all out of carrots. Welcome to the party, everyone else has been getting the stick the whole fucking time.

'kay. What's with that obsession with women? Commenter above you mentioned once that feminism can use men to portray them as evil, which they do because guess who makes them suffer most, and yet due to that you immediately went and threw everything they said as if they did nothing else but accuse women of men's suffering.

All in all, as far as I understand the comment above you, all boils down to:

• Women gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
• Corporations gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
• Rich gain, and even if not then loose nothing on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.

Which are answers to question at the beggining:

Is there even an incentive for solving men’s problems?

IMO, the incentive is for us to move our asses, take notes from women and build our own support networks. But that is actually fought against by conservatists/right-wingers, because lonely and lost men make cheap and easily influenced canon fodder.

Lol, by who?

Who would even be able to enforce this..... The politicians who are mostly men, the CEO who own silicon valley....mostly men. The police who would enforce the law.....oh also men.

You guys are just scared of your own shadows... Some real soft shit going on in this thread.

If a woman is going homeless there are resources. If it's a man there's almost nothing. I work serving the unhoused.

In my experience the problem isn't the masculinity influencers. Those are just the symptom of misandry in media and a near-total lack of support in society for men, especially young men. When you go on social media almost all discussion concerning men is about how they are the root of all evil, and everything they do is wrong. It's a never ending stream of shaming with no clear way out.

Oh yeah....I'm totally feeling that in this thread and every other one on this site talking about gender. Sure really needs like it's women attacking us men and not the other way round /s. It's not like the largest social platform on the Internet (reddit), and the largest podcast on the Internet(Joe Rogan) and the largest news network (fox) is biased against women or anything.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't: If you try to defend yourself or talk about your own problems as a man, it is labeled as misogyny. "Be vulnerable and open up" they say but if you do it's "don't center men you privileged fuck" or "you're being a crybaby".

By who? This is pure projection. Look at who is being up votes and down votes in this very thread.

this pressure is an impossible equation to solve for a young man who has been pushed by misandrists into insecurity and longs to be accepted in his community. Not just because society's demands are internally inconsistent, but because they clash with patriarchal ideals among the typical women you'll meet IRL.

Is the misandrist in the room with us right now? Where are these misandrist? I'm man, I don't have any misandrist hounding me. But maybe that's because I don't consider women defending themselves as misandry.......

I'm past 40 and while in my head I still consider myself progressive, I used to show it much more when I was younger. I was honest about my insecurities, I would try not to take up too much space as a man, would try to split responsibilities equally, and so on.

As a fellow middle aged man, I can already tell you have an epic serving of highly divorced man energy. Being progressive isn't about withdrawing and shriveling up like an old wrinkly penis. It is about defending the people who need it and making space for people who deserve it, it is about class solidarity.

At every turn this has caused me problems in relationships, not least with my wife of 10 years who left me for some muscular macho guy because she "doesn't feel like I can take care of her".

Yep, I was right. I am a "muscular macho guy", you know what I also am.... A feminist. Don't hate on feminism just because you have no game.

to balance on the needle of acting like I'm not as progressive as I am so women don't "get the ick", while not tripping into what would be labeled misogyny. It's an extremely difficult game to play and it frustrates me to no end that this is where we're at. I'm moving in soon with a woman who I've been dating for a couple of years and it's clear that she desires that I take a leadership position in the home, whereas I'm just longing for a partner who will share the burden with me instead of becoming my subject.

Get the ick? You said you were fourty...right? You can be masculine and still be a feminist dude, women like being respected.....you know because they're people. I can tell you this now, if you keep taking relationships advice from a bunch of influencers, it's not going to end well.

You can be masculine, have class solidarity, and be a feminist. I rebuilt my own house, work with my hands, lift 3-4 times a week, and am currently building an AR-15.....I'm also a leftist who believes feminism is a foundational theory of class consciousness.

Guess what, Ive been happily married to a professional dancer for 10 years.... maybe the feminism isn't the fucking problem bro.

Having been homeless before, the resources were not different for me or my partner, male, at the time. Separate sleeping quarters obviously. But the same exact resources.

Genuinely what are you talking about...Where is this?

I did and it seems to have gotten even more off track and deeply into this magical idea that women and other minorities (not sure why they were brought into it) somehow have easier lives?

Ohio. Cincinnati, specifically. It's not 100 to 0 women resources to men, it's more like 55 to 5. There are some cold weather shelters for men, and places to eat, but mostly there are zero beds unless you're willing to sign up for a drug testing program, and even then there are costs and limited spaces. There are quite a few women's shelters in the area.

Women have strong support movement on their side. It's not something they gain only through their sex, but rather something they gain I think mostly due to the same gender stereotypes that also act against them.

That seems like a self inflicted issue.... What are women supposed to do about this? In my life it has usually been women begging their husbands to speak to them or to go to therapy.

Same stereotypes which isolate men and make them suffer in silence and alone, making showing any sign of weakness a fatal mistake.

And who propogates and sustains this stereotype? Sounds like you should be mad at men.

honestly don't see your point here - what commenter above you said is right, and sure as hell they didn't mention that it doesn't work the other way around.

That would imply it's not simply a mens problem.....

What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity. Also, as far as I understand it, what you quoted above this part is just continuation of the point above it, nothing to add here.

The person I responded to was saying women were being targeted by capitalistic marketing..... How is that a mens problem. My point is that it's not a mens problem it's a capitalist problem.

Yeah, but affects genders differently. Men are eaten, ground to a paste and then spat out. Women are bellitled and their work is seen as substandard. One side doesn't make the other any less, both are problems and commenter above you didn't say men have it worse, just that they suffer from it.

Lol, so it's a class problem.... Of course the poor suffer, that's why we're supposed to have class solidarity, not become misogynistic.

Men do not get help. We do not have the same societal networks that women have to get together and stand up. And even if women decided to fight for us, it's for naught until we are able to start getting up by ourselves.

That doesn't explain the blatant misogyny in this thread and in the youth in general.

kay. What's with that obsession with women? Commenter above you mentioned once that feminism can use men to portray them as evil, which they do because guess who makes them suffer most, and yet due to that you immediately went and threw everything they said as if they did nothing else but accuse women of men's suffering.

This whole thread and post is about the gender dynamic and the blooming network of misogyny. And because his interpretation of economics is devoid of class consciousness, he and you only focus on the problems of young men, which is a demographic and not a class.

Women gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.

• Corporations gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
• Rich gain, and even if not then loose nothing on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.

How do women gain?
Who runs the corporations?

, the incentive is for us to move our asses, take notes from women and build our own support networks. But that is actually fought against by conservatists/right-wingers, because lonely and lost men make cheap and easily influenced canon fodder.

Who do you think runs the fucking world already...its us, men.

So obviously nwe don't need much support that is just based on gender. Of the people doing well right now...it's mostly men.

What separates us and the people who run the world isn't gender..its class. You can't build a supportive class network and only focus on young men.

Thank you for reading it.

There are two factors here in the US that correlate significantly with a person's lifetime earnings potential: their zip code of birth and attainment of a college degree. It's exceedingly significant (in a positive way) that women constitute the majority in college enrollment. I think that's a good thing, but it also demonstrates inequality.

I want to see policies here that mirror those in more progressive European countries: Free college, a federally-mandated living wage that adjusts with inflation, and universal health care. I also want to see universities' federal funding tied to expansion of enrollment rates, as there are many that keep them artificially low and yet still raise tuition rates every year. These benefits should target low-income communities without regard to race or gender.

In short, I want to see the economic ship lifted for the poor, and that's how it should be done.

Most young people, and in particular young men, have three choices when entering adulthood: Work for sub-standard wages and struggle alone and/or live with their parents, join the military, or take on permanent debt on the hope of a college degree and an elevated life. (If they're fortunate enough to land a spot in enrollment to begin with.)

Rampant misogyny has spread because people who consider themselves progressive have ignored these economic calamities and right-wingers have, conversely, highlighted those inequalities, created communities for young men, and gotten rich in the process. Currently the functional unemployment rate in the United States is 25%.

The solution, is creating an economy where prosperity is distributed among a more diverse population of people.

(But I suspect people will continue to vote Democrat and Republican and this conversation won't matter much in the grand scheme of things.)

Also the Simpsons, family guy, American dad etc.

Though I’d hardly acknowledge nearly anyone in this thread as a man. Weak shit.

Speaking of toxic masculinity....

I had to do community service in Tennessee, i chose to help feed the homeless at a soup kitchen, anyone could eat there, but there were only permanent beds for women. It was nice they fed the men too but thinking back, where did they go at night?

And sitcoms.

I mean it's specifically a girl's coding class, I suppose there's also open classes. Segregated resources are not the same as one side lacking resources.

The trouble with that kind of stuff is usually that the gendered version is some half-assed feel-good BS. There's not a single martial artist, gender doesn't matter, who respects "women's self defence" courses because the stuff they teach there is, at best, useless. More often it's actively dangerous placebo and reading the instructions for your pepper spray will be much, much more helpful.

rather than it historically being 10 jobs where women weren’t considered

But that's not true.

Hire the best person for the job. Period. If the best 10 people for the job - ie the most qualified, the most experience, interviewed the best, the best culture fit, etc - are all men then that should be fine. Hiring less qualified, worse people simply because they're women or a minority is ridiculous, and it means that more deserving people are missing out.

It's not only executive/board level jobs that have "diversity quotas" now.