Zen made sense until Firefox rolled out vertical tabs, but there's little reason to endure all the growing pains and bugs now you can set up basically the exact same thing directly on FF.

Can you cite me some instances of surveillance from Kagi? Genuinely asking.

Isn’t kagi's point that they store very little about you to the point there no search history and you have to pay for the service provided?

What do you use instead of Kagi?

Also you can search without tying your searches to your account with Kagi.

I really like the split view in Zen. I wish it supported drag and dropping links across pages but it's still handy.

Most regular people just use what came with their computer, unfortunately.

So this is a case of a company that made a browser to appeal to techies that didn't see widespread adoption, is pivoting to a new browser that is focused on the central conceit of a product that most techies decry...

Read the room, Arc. Read the room.

i would like to move from zen to firefox, but as of right now i’m somewhat unhappy with the vertical tabs in firefox. i’ll keep an eye on them though and make the switch once they got some more features (like only appearing when mousing to the left edge of the window and staying entirely hidden otherwise)

You can set them up so they only deploy when tapping the sidebar icon and stay hidden otherwise, which is my compromise for that. I thought it'd take me longer to adapt to that when moving back to Zen, but since the top bar does deploy on proximity when using fullscreen I find it's pretty intuitive to deploy and hide them both on mouse and touch, and I have to admit that not having them deploy accidentally when hidden is actually nice.

I do like the vertical tab pins better on Firefox, and with the new tab grouping being supported on vertical tabs I am quite happy with the setup. It takes longer to set up the way I want it compared to Zen, but honestly, I'm quite happy with it now. I'd have considered going back because more alternatives is better, but frankly Zen just had too many significant bugs in my time with it, and since it doesn't just use the engine, but it's also hooked up to Firefox's account system for a bunch of stuff it just didn't seem worth the hassle. Have they polished it up any in the past few months?

what a fucking joke, the best thing it did was create the zen browser project, and before that Vivaldi existed that took the spot of zen without the hype

You should try the Shimmer userchrome tweaks along with the Sideberry extension. With both of them it's even better than Zen IMO.

Zen Browser is open source and in active development!

Does any other browser let me open 2 windows with the same synced tabs? Also, permanent per-space tabs, please.

Zen makes something like 84 external connections, which is around double what even Edge makes (and Microsoft has basically become a malware company).

This was patched, and the vast majority were just fetching thumbnails.

Zen does

Why do people want vertical tabs? It feels as if it just takes up more space, and my muscle memory after all these years makes me move to the top. I always go back to horizontal tabs after using vertical tabs for a day.

Zen is a lot more than just vertical tabs. And I have never run into any "pains and bugs".

Ok, thanks! Good to know there's a backup plan. For now Arc still works fine, just no updates anymore.

Because web content is increasingly mobile and vertical-oriented. So the horizontal space is usually empty anyway.

Sometimes new things take time to get used to but if you try it for more than a single day you may find that you like it.

The Browser Company, the developer behind the Arc Browser, has announced that Arc is going away

Where? Where did they do this? Why is there no link? They said several times, very recently, that it was not going away. They were just basically going into maintenance mode.

please know this: we’re not trying to shut Arc down.

- 2 weeks ago