Firefox is fine. The people running it are not
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Ok. I have one question then. I think we can come to a clear resolution with it.
Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, what percentage is it Linux?
It includes 100% the apps, system tools, GUIs, and libraries that you associate with Linux. It also has 0 lines of Linux code in it.
If you can justify that it is above >0% Linux I will use your definition of operating system going forward.
i don’t think percentage is a useful distinction… how do you measure that? by lines of code? by behavioural traits? my point throughout this discussion is that it’s not as clean as any of that
as i said: its its own thing… it is neither linux, debian, nor is it freebsd… in the same way that android is an operating system distinct from other flavours of linux
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… leadership impacts the product. Ff might be the best choice rn, but leadership will fuck it up.
If you have a chance to read the article, I'd highly recommend it. It directly addresses that point.
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i don’t think percentage is a useful distinction… how do you measure that? by lines of code? by behavioural traits? my point throughout this discussion is that it’s not as clean as any of that
as i said: its its own thing… it is neither linux, debian, nor is it freebsd… in the same way that android is an operating system distinct from other flavours of linux
The point is, that the answer is 0% by any reasonable metric. I don't think any more is to be gained here given the question dodge.
So I will say good bye and best of luck again.
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The point is, that the answer is 0% by any reasonable metric. I don't think any more is to be gained here given the question dodge.
So I will say good bye and best of luck again.
i didn’t dodge the question… i’m saying the question is rooted firmly in your definition and is therefore not something that i think is valid…. and your use of “reasonable” is just saying you think anyone that disagrees with you is unreasonable… charged end emotive: not intended to discuss, but to persuade regardless of truth
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Yeah, this is part of the new Reaganomics I like to call AIconomics. The goal isn't to produce a good product, the goal to make something flashy that tech billionaires want to throw cash at. It's not unlike crypto. Crypto has literally no actual value yet people are shitting money into bitcoins of every type in hopes that one will hit it big. Meanwhile tech billionaires keep minting new ones to entice new suckers every other week. The tech billionaires want you hooked on AI so you'll give up your private info that they can sell to each other so they can cash in, the software companies are investing their time and resources into making AI LLMs in order to get tech billionaires to give them money. It's a viscous capitalist circle. Only thing that will stop it is heavy regulation. But with Republicans in charge that will absolutely never happen. Trump practically made his entire cabinet out of billionaires and corporate shills. And too many Democrats gave them the thumb up, so don't count of Dems doing a whole lot to stall the big tech chokehold on everything either.
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Sadly I am running into more and more things that don't work on firefox. Stuff like medical record portals, financial websites for my companies retirement plan. Stuff I have little choice about. And most fail silently. They don't say it is the browser. I don't know how they are doing it, but google is winning the fight.
If a site I have to use doesn't work for no apparent reason, I e-mail the company's Support. Let them sort it out, or provide another way I can do what I'm trying to do. Personally, I think a lot of the problems are from more and more websites integrating privacy-invading "features", and FF interfering with their operation.
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… leadership impacts the product. Ff might be the best choice rn, but leadership will fuck it up.
The forks are Firefox with their own leadership. I have had pretty good experience with Librewolf.
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For those holding out for a hero: https://ladybird.org/
Ladybird is a brand-new browser & web engine. Driven by a web standards first approach, Ladybird aims to render the modern web with good performance, stability and security.
Question. Does it have uBO or an equivalent yet?
Without it, it'll simply not be internet-ready.
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If Firefox doesn't keep up with web standards, neither will any of the forks
Cold take: we need to stop chasing web Standards that are purposefully set up by big corpo to be exlusionary.
What we need, what Firefox could hope to be, is a browser developed for a new old internet paradigm. Maybe Gopher, or Gemini (the good one). Alternatively a purposefully reduced HTML+CSS, no JS.
Trim down the fat so that it is actually possible to finance the development of a web engine an browser without leeching on a dick corpo (and sabotagong open internet in the process).
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It's so damn stupid. If your site works meaningfully differently in Firefox vs Chromium, you're already doing something very, very wrong.
Chromium does a lot of heavy lifting to fix problems with websites which enables certain web developers to be lazy.
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The forks are Firefox with their own leadership. I have had pretty good experience with Librewolf.
How's that on mobile? Oh, right. It isn't.
We need real solutions.
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and it’s incredibly shit that you can’t donate to firefox… people donate to mozilla assuming they’re donating to firefox but none of the donations go towards firefox development
i emailed them about this a while ago… i can’t remember exactly what i said, but basically that i didn’t want to donate to adtech and ai slop but wanted to support firefox development… this is their reply
Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback with us. We genuinely value hearing from our supporters, as your insights help us understand what matters most to the Mozilla community.
It’s important to note that the Mozilla Foundation and Mozilla Corporation are two separate entities within the Mozilla umbrella - Mozilla Corporation is responsible for developing and maintaining Firefox and other software products, and they are continuously working on improving the user experience, including addressing compatibility issues and promoting the browser to a wider audience.
The Mozilla Foundation, on the other hand, focuses on broader internet health and advocacy work. Our mission is to ensure the internet remains open and accessible for everyone, and this includes issues related to privacy, digital rights, and equity. To confirm, the survey that you had received was from the Mozilla Foundation.
With that being said, Firefox is funded by revenue generated through the product rather than donations. At the moment, there is no way for supporters to make a donation that will be designated to the development of Firefox. Have no fear, things are looking good for Firefox's future and they plan to be around a long time, supporting folks with the most secure browser experience! Continuing to use Firefox, and recommending it to others, is the best way to support this project.
We truly appreciate your concerns about Firefox and their top priorities - We on the Mozilla Foundation strongly believe that issues such as privacy, online safety, and data security are connected to the products and services we all use every day. The work we do in these areas complements Mozilla Corporation’s focus on building better, more secure software like Firefox, and w encourage you to participate in our survey!
If you would like to input some of your thoughts and ideas into our Ideas discussion forum regarding Firefox and other Mozilla products, please visit: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/idb-p/ideas
We thank you again for reaching out to our Mozilla Foundation Donor Care team, and please let us know if we can support your further!
All the best,
<redacted their name>
Donor Care TeamMozilla Foundation https://foundation.mozilla.org/
Unfortunately Firefox is a product whose job is to show ads for profit, so the only way to "donate" to it is to click ads.
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Refusal to make a "political" statement is very much political when the politics in question is about acknowledging non-men exist. There is no politically neutral choice when there are two options who are both political.
That's totally false.
One can write using the generic masculine form without making a political statement.
This is not even close to not acknowledge there is non-men in this world.
What you are putting forward is absurd. No one is saying that only men exist anywhere in here.
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Yeah, this is part of the new Reaganomics I like to call AIconomics. The goal isn't to produce a good product, the goal to make something flashy that tech billionaires want to throw cash at. It's not unlike crypto. Crypto has literally no actual value yet people are shitting money into bitcoins of every type in hopes that one will hit it big. Meanwhile tech billionaires keep minting new ones to entice new suckers every other week. The tech billionaires want you hooked on AI so you'll give up your private info that they can sell to each other so they can cash in, the software companies are investing their time and resources into making AI LLMs in order to get tech billionaires to give them money. It's a viscous capitalist circle. Only thing that will stop it is heavy regulation. But with Republicans in charge that will absolutely never happen. Trump practically made his entire cabinet out of billionaires and corporate shills. And too many Democrats gave them the thumb up, so don't count of Dems doing a whole lot to stall the big tech chokehold on everything either.
How viscous is the cycle
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Yeah, this is part of the new Reaganomics I like to call AIconomics. The goal isn't to produce a good product, the goal to make something flashy that tech billionaires want to throw cash at. It's not unlike crypto. Crypto has literally no actual value yet people are shitting money into bitcoins of every type in hopes that one will hit it big. Meanwhile tech billionaires keep minting new ones to entice new suckers every other week. The tech billionaires want you hooked on AI so you'll give up your private info that they can sell to each other so they can cash in, the software companies are investing their time and resources into making AI LLMs in order to get tech billionaires to give them money. It's a viscous capitalist circle. Only thing that will stop it is heavy regulation. But with Republicans in charge that will absolutely never happen. Trump practically made his entire cabinet out of billionaires and corporate shills. And too many Democrats gave them the thumb up, so don't count of Dems doing a whole lot to stall the big tech chokehold on everything either.
I'ld like to vote Cryptonimics as term, because it encompasses both the cryptic nature of the product, and the clear example of cryptocurrency.
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I'ld like to vote Cryptonimics as term, because it encompasses both the cryptic nature of the product, and the clear example of cryptocurrency.
Where do you think you are?
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How's that on mobile? Oh, right. It isn't.
We need real solutions.
IronFox is really good on mobile.
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Firefox still hasn't fixed Bug 1938998 despite me reporting it multiple times. There's a reason why Firefox is almost non existent on mobile. I've been using the internet for 26 years, and have used Mozilla based browsers since 2001, I want them to survive to the next era of the internet, but they are struggling to keep up. Opera and Edge already gave up their engines, Webkit and Blink are basically the same engine with different standards enabled, and Firefox is under 2% on some days on Statcounter. I feel that soon AI based browsers using their own AI-engine will probably take over the internet soon anyway.
I use Firefox on mobile all the time. Works fine for me. The fact that I get adblock on mobile makes it a no-brainer to use over chrome.
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One observer has been spectating and commentating on Mozilla since before it was a foundation – one of its original co-developers, Jamie Zawinksi
...
Zawinski has repeatedly said:
Now hear me out, but What If…? browser development was in the hands of some kind of nonprofit organization?
In my humble but correct opinion, Mozilla should be doing two things and two things only:
- Building THE reference implementation web browser, and
- Being a jugular-snapping attack dog on standards committees.
- There is no 3.
This makes sense to me. I initially thought everything that Proton does, that should have been Mozilla. They should have been a collection of services to compete with like O365 and Google One. So I didn’t see a problem with Mozilla selling a VPN, even though if I remember right it being just a Mullvad rebrand.
Right now to me it looks like Proton is the closest mostly missing a web browser and a more cloud office offering.
Mozilla functioning more as the reference browser for others to finish packaging and supporting sounds good to me because Mozilla doesn’t seem to be great at attracting general users or even picking what businesses to try and break into.
Linux kernel devs do Linux kernel development and distros small and large do the integration with everything else needed for an operating system, branding, support, etc. Sounds like Mozilla should have been the core devs for a number of reference software projects. Firefox browser engine. Maybe an equivalent to Electron based on Servo. Shouldn't have dropped Rust and been the steward for the reference Rust compiler. Could have been the steward for FirefoxOS/KaiOS/etc. Support PostmarketOS maybe.
Linux foundation stewards or contributes to all sorts of software projects not just the kernel but they're all pretty much things that are relevant for users of Linux operating systems. Mozilla could have found some software centric focus that in some way came together thematically. I would guess privacy focused browser and software services
Yup. Firefox alone isn't really a business. It needs to be like Linux where businesses that create web applications or want to distribute their owned custom browser contributes in some way to support Firefox core development.
A core web browser is an expensive to develop piece of software that doesn't have a good business model. It's a support product. It supports web applications and it can integrate/market other services with extensions/plugins. FirefoxOS failed, maybe with better leadership it wouldn't have, but now they should be supporting PostmarketOS and driving adoption for mainstream Linux adoption.
KDE is a really good example of what looks a great open source collective of projects with great current stuff and a long term vision. I imagine it plays into why Valve contributes and works with KDE for SteamOS
You got the desktop, you got Plasma Mobile for stuff like PostmarketOS, you have Krita, Kdenlive and a bunch of other things. Saying that makes me want a phone to have PostmarketOS on with Plasma Mobile just to support a healthier alternative to Android/iOS. Praise the KDE Project for continuing with Plasma Mobile for what I'm certain is an incredibly small user base compared to their other applications while probably being a huge development project
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How's that on mobile? Oh, right. It isn't.
We need real solutions.
Firefox forks are real. They are also on mobile.
