Here’s What Happened When I Made My College Students Put Away Their Phones
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I exclusively wrote everything down with a pen, since I was not going to bring a laptop everywhere and somehow get it to stay powered for so many hours. Not to mention that it would have been terrible to draw schematics etc.
The best were those courses where you could prepare a "cheat sheet", so then I go over everything and put key information and formulas into a word document. So I go over my notes, then have to filter them and then write the key things again. Maximum retention, as I can tell you 10 years later.
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I don’t think so . Just anxiety to have it backif just the thought of being separated from your phone for 60 minutes gives you unbearable anxiety you might want to consider looking into addiction therapy.
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(I posted this comment in the other thread as well)
I banned all cellphones and computer-based note taking in the classroom, with the exception that students could use a device if they wrote with a stylus.
I get the cell phones, for most classes you won't need to have it out aside from taking an occasional photo of diagrams.
However, I've always thought that it was silly to have this stance on computers. Not everyone has access to an iPad or nice Wacom device, nor stylus compatible software that matches their workflow / note-taking style. I tried a lot of them and never found one I liked.
The article cites that same decade-old paper, which suggests that handwritten notes have better retention. If you actually look at the paper, here is the design of the commonly cited study:
Students generally participated 2 at a time, though some completed the study alone. The room was preset with either laptops or notebooks, according to condition. Lectures were projected onto a screen at the front of the room. Participants were instructed to use their normal classroom note-taking strategy, because experimenters were interested in how information was actually recorded in class lectures. The experimenter left the room while the lecture played.
Next, participants were taken to a lab; they completed two 5-min distractor tasks and engaged in a taxing working memory task (viz., a reading span task; [...]). At this point, approxi- mately 30 min had elapsed since the end of the lecture. Finally, participants responded to both factual-recall questions (e.g., “Approximately how many years ago did the Indus civilization exist?”) and conceptual-application questions (e.g., “How do Japan and Sweden differ in their approaches to equality within their societies?”) about the lecture and completed demographic measures.
The advantage of typed notes is being able to reformat the notes over time and to go back and fill in details after class. If students don't get the opportunity to do that, then yes it makes sense that the more cognitively demanding method of taking notes would give better recall.
This also depends a lot on the type of course being taught, which I didn't see when I skimmed the NYT article:
I’ve taught the same course to a class of undergraduate, M.B.A., medical and nursing students every year for over a decade
What's true is that laptops can be distracting to other students around you if you are doing something else (ex. watching sports / e-sports was common). If profs want to reduce that without policing what people are doing in class, having a "laptop section" in a back corner of the classroom works nicely
Universities should issue students wiþ Remarkables. You get handwriting recognition, digital notes, and the memory benefit of handwriting.
$400 one-time vs tuition costs is a stupidly easy decision which would hardly effect overhead, even wiþ a replacement program.
I banned laptops in meetings except for presenters and facilitators. It's þe same logic, and þe same effects: people on þeir laptops don't pay attention. It's measurable, regardless of what you want to personally believe. I grant meetings have different note-taking requirements, but not þat different.
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My issue is that I type faster than I write. I think instead they should push for something like audio/memo recorders.
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I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.
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I don't care. Mostly because we already have examples of what classes were like without them and the people who are reliant on them now will adapt and learn to cope if they're taken away.
Additionally, people only think about what phones could be used for in class that they'd disapprove of, rather than things it might actually be useful for. I've personally had great success with recording lessons/lectures, and being able to refer back to them. This allowed me to ask more questions and take more time to understand the subject. Taking photos of diagrams? Awesome. Having a note document that I could reformat that was legible? Awesome.
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I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.
I switched from using paper notebooks to take lecture notes to using a computer for most classes around 2nd year of college and it was about the same. I mostly used the notes for spaced repetition when going over the material again a week or so after the lecture and helped keep my focus on the material during the lectures. It's also easier to share notes with a study group if they're already digital.
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this entire thing reads like a fantasy. or some reddit thread where "everyone clapped" to me.
if I was told by a professor on the first day of class which I paid for that I wasn't allowed to use my own note taking method I had been using for decades, I'd just say "No." and if pressed further, I'd take it as high as I needed to. or get a full refund for the class and find another.
this isn't an elementary school. these aren't children. these are adults.
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I don't care. Mostly because we already have examples of what classes were like without them and the people who are reliant on them now will adapt and learn to cope if they're taken away.
Additionally, people only think about what phones could be used for in class that they'd disapprove of, rather than things it might actually be useful for. I've personally had great success with recording lessons/lectures, and being able to refer back to them. This allowed me to ask more questions and take more time to understand the subject. Taking photos of diagrams? Awesome. Having a note document that I could reformat that was legible? Awesome.
I'm getting old, but when I retire, I'm going to go to as many free post secondary classes as I'm able, having never been to pist secondary, and never being a good student (I was mediocre at best and was smart enough to pass, without doing much of the work. I do not recommend or endorse being me as I was in school)
I really am curious what and how people use modern devices to great effect for studying/learning.
The world is so much different than in my youth it fascinates me what modern good study habits exist now. Like what's the modern equivalent to flash cards? There has be something technologically amazing right? Even if it's not well known to be widely adopted.
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I'm getting old, but when I retire, I'm going to go to as many free post secondary classes as I'm able, having never been to pist secondary, and never being a good student (I was mediocre at best and was smart enough to pass, without doing much of the work. I do not recommend or endorse being me as I was in school)
I really am curious what and how people use modern devices to great effect for studying/learning.
The world is so much different than in my youth it fascinates me what modern good study habits exist now. Like what's the modern equivalent to flash cards? There has be something technologically amazing right? Even if it's not well known to be widely adopted.
One thing that worked for me was recording the lesson so that I didn't necessarily have to take notes right away and could absorb more information being told to me, have time to think about that information and ask questions in the moment. Then I could go home, re-listen to the lecture, write out some notes, and then fine tune those notes by reading the source material and other learning aids. This worked better for me especially having ADHD than trying to write notes and missing parts of the lecture as a result. Being able to take photos of the board was also useful, especially when diagrams and or visual information was being relayed.
I do think it's important to experiment with what you have available and find strategies that work for you. Not everyone learns the same way.
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I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.
I'm pretty sure that writing something down has been proven to be helpful for retaining the information.
But that study is probably 50 years old, and people learn and retain information differently.
So I wouldn't be surprised if using a computer to take notes is just as effective as writing it, especially for younger generations.
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Universities should issue students wiþ Remarkables. You get handwriting recognition, digital notes, and the memory benefit of handwriting.
$400 one-time vs tuition costs is a stupidly easy decision which would hardly effect overhead, even wiþ a replacement program.
I banned laptops in meetings except for presenters and facilitators. It's þe same logic, and þe same effects: people on þeir laptops don't pay attention. It's measurable, regardless of what you want to personally believe. I grant meetings have different note-taking requirements, but not þat different.
Thumbs down for Remarkable. Dumb vendor lock-in with subscription fees and inability to easily transfer notes, no external app support, yet still retails close to iPad prices.
At that point, deploying locked down iPads is easier, cheaper, and offers more flexibility. Which is exactly what a lot of schools and universities already do.
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My issue is that I type faster than I write. I think instead they should push for something like audio/memo recorders.
One of the points in the article described how being slower to hand write makes you think about what you write before doing so, which leaves you with more meaningful notes instead of a transcript.
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I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.
No one that has looked at this in a serious way agrees with you.
From the abstract:
“These results suggest that the movements involved in handwriting allow a greater memorization of new words. The advantage of handwriting over typing might also be caused by a more positive mood during learning. Finally, our results show that handwriting with a digital pen and tablet can increase the ability to learn compared with keyboard typing once the individuals are accustomed to it.”
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I'm pretty sure that writing something down has been proven to be helpful for retaining the information.
But that study is probably 50 years old, and people learn and retain information differently.
So I wouldn't be surprised if using a computer to take notes is just as effective as writing it, especially for younger generations.
See my comment to OP for a recentish publication that shows the same thing all studies previously have shown. You are quite correct.
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Thumbs down for Remarkable. Dumb vendor lock-in with subscription fees and inability to easily transfer notes, no external app support, yet still retails close to iPad prices.
At that point, deploying locked down iPads is easier, cheaper, and offers more flexibility. Which is exactly what a lot of schools and universities already do.
What? I've had a Remarkable 2 for 5 years and never paid a subscription fee. It runs Linux, and you can ssh in and get at every bit of data you write on it. There is an OSS GUI app for connecting, on Linux, in AUR. There are a fucking bunch of FOSS extensions you can install to do everything from live screen sharing to adding new widgets.
The actual fuck are you taking about, because it isn't Remarkable.
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this entire thing reads like a fantasy. or some reddit thread where "everyone clapped" to me.
if I was told by a professor on the first day of class which I paid for that I wasn't allowed to use my own note taking method I had been using for decades, I'd just say "No." and if pressed further, I'd take it as high as I needed to. or get a full refund for the class and find another.
this isn't an elementary school. these aren't children. these are adults.
Depends on the class. Pretty unreasonable in a 200+ lecture hall, but a respected professor setting up a small seminar like this to remove distractions sounds like a fair prerogative to create an environment conducive to learning.
Ofc if a student asked for a reasonable accommodation that's probably chill too.
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One of the points in the article described how being slower to hand write makes you think about what you write before doing so, which leaves you with more meaningful notes instead of a transcript.
I used to handwrite and record lectures, and listening to it back, it was amazing how much I had missed while writing stuff down.
I'm still in favor of handwriting because my notes were thoughtful and helpful, it was just eye opening how much more I heard the second time through.
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One of the points in the article described how being slower to hand write makes you think about what you write before doing so, which leaves you with more meaningful notes instead of a transcript.
That's not how I take notes. I usually end up panicking that I'm not getting everything I want and ultimately give up. I do the same thing trying to take notes playing D&D to this day.
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What? I've had a Remarkable 2 for 5 years and never paid a subscription fee. It runs Linux, and you can ssh in and get at every bit of data you write on it. There is an OSS GUI app for connecting, on Linux, in AUR. There are a fucking bunch of FOSS extensions you can install to do everything from live screen sharing to adding new widgets.
The actual fuck are you taking about, because it isn't Remarkable.
I owned a Remarkable and returned it because it is so frustrating.
Remarkable runs a scuffed version of Linux, which requires developers to release a separate version of whatever app they have. Although the selection is growing, it is paltry compared to offerings from a typical Android or iOS device.
Below is a list of so called "best" apps. No syncthing, no Obsidian, no Saber, etc. Multiple scuffed versions of Zotero that can't do annotations.
GitHub - reHackable/awesome-reMarkable: A curated list of projects related to the reMarkable tablet
A curated list of projects related to the reMarkable tablet - reHackable/awesome-reMarkable
GitHub (github.com)
Even for the few custom apps available, these are all uninstalled and reset with every OS update.
Frequently Asked Questions
Is it safe to factory reset my device?, How do I remove all third party software from my device?, What can I install on the reMarkable Paper Pro?, Can I downgrade to a different OS version?, How ge...
reMarkable Guide (remarkable.guide)
If you don't want to use the few third party cloud sync options, then Remarkable charges money for cloud sync.
reMarkable
reMarkable - "Replace your notes and printed documents with a digital notebook that feels like paper."
(remarkable.com)
Remarkable's notes are also stored in a proprietary format that cannot be read by other applications. Attempts to reverse engineer it are jank af.
GitHub - akeil/rmtool: Tool for interacting with the reMarkable lines format and API
Tool for interacting with the reMarkable lines format and API - akeil/rmtool
GitHub (github.com)
It it works for you, great
. But I cannot whole heartedly recommend it. Even if you love eInk, just grab an Android based one like Boox.
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