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Here’s What Happened When I Made My College Students Put Away Their Phones

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    (I posted this comment in the other thread as well)


    I banned all cellphones and computer-based note taking in the classroom, with the exception that students could use a device if they wrote with a stylus.

    I get the cell phones, for most classes you won't need to have it out aside from taking an occasional photo of diagrams.

    However, I've always thought that it was silly to have this stance on computers. Not everyone has access to an iPad or nice Wacom device, nor stylus compatible software that matches their workflow / note-taking style. I tried a lot of them and never found one I liked.

    The article cites that same decade-old paper, which suggests that handwritten notes have better retention. If you actually look at the paper, here is the design of the commonly cited study:

    Students generally participated 2 at a time, though some completed the study alone. The room was preset with either laptops or notebooks, according to condition. Lectures were projected onto a screen at the front of the room. Participants were instructed to use their normal classroom note-taking strategy, because experimenters were interested in how information was actually recorded in class lectures. The experimenter left the room while the lecture played.

    Next, participants were taken to a lab; they completed two 5-min distractor tasks and engaged in a taxing working memory task (viz., a reading span task; [...]). At this point, approxi- mately 30 min had elapsed since the end of the lecture. Finally, participants responded to both factual-recall questions (e.g., “Approximately how many years ago did the Indus civilization exist?”) and conceptual-application questions (e.g., “How do Japan and Sweden differ in their approaches to equality within their societies?”) about the lecture and completed demographic measures.

    The advantage of typed notes is being able to reformat the notes over time and to go back and fill in details after class. If students don't get the opportunity to do that, then yes it makes sense that the more cognitively demanding method of taking notes would give better recall.

    This also depends a lot on the type of course being taught, which I didn't see when I skimmed the NYT article:

    I’ve taught the same course to a class of undergraduate, M.B.A., medical and nursing students every year for over a decade

    What's true is that laptops can be distracting to other students around you if you are doing something else (ex. watching sports / e-sports was common). If profs want to reduce that without policing what people are doing in class, having a "laptop section" in a back corner of the classroom works nicely

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    Ex university prof here (instructor actually. Lowest monkey up the tree).
    Duuuh! No shit Sherlock!

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    😂😂😂😂 I don’t think so . Just anxiety to have it back

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    I exclusively wrote everything down with a pen, since I was not going to bring a laptop everywhere and somehow get it to stay powered for so many hours. Not to mention that it would have been terrible to draw schematics etc.

    The best were those courses where you could prepare a "cheat sheet", so then I go over everything and put key information and formulas into a word document. So I go over my notes, then have to filter them and then write the key things again. Maximum retention, as I can tell you 10 years later.

  • 😂😂😂😂 I don’t think so . Just anxiety to have it back

    if just the thought of being separated from your phone for 60 minutes gives you unbearable anxiety you might want to consider looking into addiction therapy.

  • (I posted this comment in the other thread as well)


    I banned all cellphones and computer-based note taking in the classroom, with the exception that students could use a device if they wrote with a stylus.

    I get the cell phones, for most classes you won't need to have it out aside from taking an occasional photo of diagrams.

    However, I've always thought that it was silly to have this stance on computers. Not everyone has access to an iPad or nice Wacom device, nor stylus compatible software that matches their workflow / note-taking style. I tried a lot of them and never found one I liked.

    The article cites that same decade-old paper, which suggests that handwritten notes have better retention. If you actually look at the paper, here is the design of the commonly cited study:

    Students generally participated 2 at a time, though some completed the study alone. The room was preset with either laptops or notebooks, according to condition. Lectures were projected onto a screen at the front of the room. Participants were instructed to use their normal classroom note-taking strategy, because experimenters were interested in how information was actually recorded in class lectures. The experimenter left the room while the lecture played.

    Next, participants were taken to a lab; they completed two 5-min distractor tasks and engaged in a taxing working memory task (viz., a reading span task; [...]). At this point, approxi- mately 30 min had elapsed since the end of the lecture. Finally, participants responded to both factual-recall questions (e.g., “Approximately how many years ago did the Indus civilization exist?”) and conceptual-application questions (e.g., “How do Japan and Sweden differ in their approaches to equality within their societies?”) about the lecture and completed demographic measures.

    The advantage of typed notes is being able to reformat the notes over time and to go back and fill in details after class. If students don't get the opportunity to do that, then yes it makes sense that the more cognitively demanding method of taking notes would give better recall.

    This also depends a lot on the type of course being taught, which I didn't see when I skimmed the NYT article:

    I’ve taught the same course to a class of undergraduate, M.B.A., medical and nursing students every year for over a decade

    What's true is that laptops can be distracting to other students around you if you are doing something else (ex. watching sports / e-sports was common). If profs want to reduce that without policing what people are doing in class, having a "laptop section" in a back corner of the classroom works nicely

    Universities should issue students wiþ Remarkables. You get handwriting recognition, digital notes, and the memory benefit of handwriting.

    $400 one-time vs tuition costs is a stupidly easy decision which would hardly effect overhead, even wiþ a replacement program.

    I banned laptops in meetings except for presenters and facilitators. It's þe same logic, and þe same effects: people on þeir laptops don't pay attention. It's measurable, regardless of what you want to personally believe. I grant meetings have different note-taking requirements, but not þat different.

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    My issue is that I type faster than I write. I think instead they should push for something like audio/memo recorders.

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    I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.

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    I don't care. Mostly because we already have examples of what classes were like without them and the people who are reliant on them now will adapt and learn to cope if they're taken away.

    Additionally, people only think about what phones could be used for in class that they'd disapprove of, rather than things it might actually be useful for. I've personally had great success with recording lessons/lectures, and being able to refer back to them. This allowed me to ask more questions and take more time to understand the subject. Taking photos of diagrams? Awesome. Having a note document that I could reformat that was legible? Awesome.

  • I disagree that writing by hand is magically improving information absorbtion/retention. Source: I've been doing it through all of my school and all of my uni. Being half-asleep, pondering something completely irrelevant, and in general course material flying completely over my head while I write it down was a norm most of the time. And lecturers dictating their stuff at high speeds didn't help either. Maybe there is some temporary novelty effect after you switch from one way of writing to another, but I wouldn't expect that last long.

    I switched from using paper notebooks to take lecture notes to using a computer for most classes around 2nd year of college and it was about the same. I mostly used the notes for spaced repetition when going over the material again a week or so after the lecture and helped keep my focus on the material during the lectures. It's also easier to share notes with a study group if they're already digital.

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    Yep, and when you click a button that liteally says "make this discoverable on search engines" which is off by defualt, its the later.
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    What I'm speaking about is that it should be impossible to do some things. If it's possible, they will be done, and there's nothing you can do about it. To solve the problem of twiddled social media (and moderation used to assert dominance) we need a decentralized system of 90s Web reimagined, and Fediverse doesn't deliver it - if Facebook and Reddit are feudal states, then Fediverse is a confederation of smaller feudal entities. A post, a person, a community, a reaction and a change (by moderator or by the user) should be global entities (with global identifiers, so that the object by id of #0000001a2b3c4d6e7f890 would be the same object today or 10 years later on every server storing it) replicated over a network of servers similarly to Usenet (and to an IRC network, but in an IRC network servers are trusted, so it's not a good example for a global system). Really bad posts (or those by persons with history of posting such) should be banned on server level by everyone. The rest should be moderated by moderator reactions\changes of certain type. Ideally, for pooling of resources and resilience, servers would be separated by types into storage nodes (I think the name says it, FTP servers can do the job, but no need to be limited by it), index nodes (scraping many storage nodes, giving out results in structured format fit for any user representation, say, as a sequence of posts in one community, or like a list of communities found by tag, or ... , and possibly being connected into one DHT for Kademlia-like search, since no single index node will have everything), and (like in torrents?) tracker nodes for these and for identities, I think torrent-like announce-retrieve service is enough - to return a list of storage nodes storing, say, a specified partition (subspace of identifiers of objects, to make looking for something at least possibly efficient), or return a list of index nodes, or return a bunch of certificates and keys for an identity (should be somehow cryptographically connected to the global identifier of a person). So when a storage node comes online, it announces itself to a bunch of such trackers, similarly with index nodes, similarly with a user. One can also have a NOSTR-like service for real-time notifications by users. This way you'd have a global untrusted pooled infrastructure, allowing to replace many platforms. With common data, identities, services. Objects in storage and index services can be, say, in a format including a set of tags and then the body. So a specific application needing to show only data related to it would just search on index services and display only objects with tags of, say, "holo_ns:talk.bullshit.starwars" and "holo_t:post", like a sequence of posts with ability to comment, or maybe it would search objects with tags "holo_name:My 1999-like Star Wars holopage" and "holo_t:page" and display the links like search results in Google, and then clicking on that you'd see something presented like a webpage, except links would lead to global identifiers (or tag expressions interpreted by the particular application, who knows). (An index service may return, say, an array of objects, each with identifier, tags, list of locations on storage nodes where it's found or even bittorrent magnet links, and a free description possibly ; then the user application can unify responses of a few such services to avoid repetitions, maybe sort them, represent them as needed, so on.) The user applications for that common infrastructure can be different at the same time. Some like Facebook, some like ICQ, some like a web browser, some like a newsreader. (Star Wars is not a random reference, my whole habit of imagining tech stuff is from trying to imagine a science fiction world of the future, so yeah, this may seem like passive dreaming and it is.)
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