Signal – an ethical replacement for WhatsApp
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exactly. so I'm wondering what the purpose is for its need.
(edit: apologies- the phone number. needing the phone number.)
What? You use a secure messenger to send secure messages. It doesn't make sense for a secure messenger to offer sending insecure messages (SMS).
Edit: oh, you're probably referring to why it requires a phone number. This seems to be due to abuse/spam prevention, as otherwise creating new accounts to spam people with is basically free.
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Tell me you don't know anything about security without telling me you don't know anything about security.
Could you explain a bit? I see main issue with Signal (though I'm not an expert, and they're not strictly related to security): it's centralized (and the server isn't even open-source).
The question is also a lot about your threat model right?
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What? You use a secure messenger to send secure messages. It doesn't make sense for a secure messenger to offer sending insecure messages (SMS).
Edit: oh, you're probably referring to why it requires a phone number. This seems to be due to abuse/spam prevention, as otherwise creating new accounts to spam people with is basically free.
using the phone number is still a pretty unnecessary risk, imho.
there's no real need for it any longer.
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using the phone number is still a pretty unnecessary risk, imho.
there's no real need for it any longer.
Do you have a better approach to prevent spam in mind? Without a barrier of entry it becomes a serious issue.
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They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video. So that isn't a problem.
I too have friends and family in different countries, one of which is crazy about whatsapp. I simply tell them this is how we are going to do things now, and walk them through it. It is not hard. If they can't do it, well then we don't need to communicate this way. Whatsapp is not an option. It is that simple.
Signal is not capable of SMS and quite a lot of people still use it.
yes, i know SMS isn't secure at all. but if the option is "keep in touch with close family" or "don't keep in touch" they will probably choose the former if they want to keep that.
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Can't find it though
Forgot- you gotta add their repo.
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Do you have a better approach to prevent spam in mind? Without a barrier of entry it becomes a serious issue.
Spam prevention? Ive got spam on Signal. Having your phone number be the barrier of entry doesn't make Signal a flawless app.
and considering i can just plug a google voice number in, I'm not sure its the best barrier.
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Signal is not capable of SMS and quite a lot of people still use it.
yes, i know SMS isn't secure at all. but if the option is "keep in touch with close family" or "don't keep in touch" they will probably choose the former if they want to keep that.
I would rather SMS than use WhatsApp. But even then if my family is far away, why am texting them at all very often? With the time zone differences I'll call or email, or nothing. It's weird how people got along just fine with letters that took weeks and suddenly we now need instant communication for some reason?
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Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It's nearly the same. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.
Oh well.
I tried switching my family over, but being unable to install it on a second device or tablet was a deal breaker.
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I can't call ethical an app that relies on Electron.
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The exit plan from WhatsApp is quite simple. Start by installing Signal and setting it up – it takes only a couple of minutes. Then, resume any WhatsApp conversations on Signal if that person is already a Signal user. If they are not, then switch to regular text messaging and gently suggest to that person to switch over to Signal.
Sadly for me, this doesn't really work for some relatives as
- They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
- Some are so tech un-savvy that even installing a new app by themselves is too much.
All I can do for those relatives is to leave WhatsApp installed but take away basically every permission I can, including running in the background.
How did they get WhatsApp installed? Is a FaceTime or other video option available? Never give up, never surrender
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I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they've never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn't care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can't switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I'd just be alone there. What's the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they're not gonna switch now.
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I would rather SMS than use WhatsApp. But even then if my family is far away, why am texting them at all very often? With the time zone differences I'll call or email, or nothing. It's weird how people got along just fine with letters that took weeks and suddenly we now need instant communication for some reason?
How is that weird? You can be fine with suboptimal stuff, and recognize it's suboptimal. Some people like their relatives and wished they could talk together more readily. Letters were just the fastest (while economical) method of doing that for a while.
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Could you explain a bit? I see main issue with Signal (though I'm not an expert, and they're not strictly related to security): it's centralized (and the server isn't even open-source).
The question is also a lot about your threat model right?
The encryption being crap really does not depend on the threat model. Sure, in some threat models you may not need e2ee at all but in that case, what's wrong with WhatsApp?
The issue with XMPP is that security really was an afterthought. Not only is e2ee an optional extension, but there are actually 2 incompatible extensions, each with multiple versions. Then you have some clients not implementing either, some clients implementing the older, less secure one. Some implement the newer one but older version of the spec with known issues. And of course, the few clients that implement it well become incompatible with other clients that don't if you enable e2ee, so it is disabled by default.
That is all before you start looking into security audits or metadata harvesting.
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I can't call ethical an app that relies on Electron.
Weird goalpost but Ok
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I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they've never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn't care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can't switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I'd just be alone there. What's the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they're not gonna switch now.
Yep. I know the details. I'm tech savvy enough, but I use what my contacts use, and I'm not leaving WhatsApp. Same goes for youtube. The content I consume is there. There is no suitable alternative until the content creators switch. It's not really about the technology at all.
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I would rather SMS than use WhatsApp. But even then if my family is far away, why am texting them at all very often? With the time zone differences I'll call or email, or nothing. It's weird how people got along just fine with letters that took weeks and suddenly we now need instant communication for some reason?
we used to be fine with candles and stinky lanterns filled with perfectly good kerosene too. who tf needs electricity? 🤨
on the topic of family connection, I can't speak to your family experience. only my own. and our family group chat is pretty damn active.
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I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they've never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn't care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can't switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I'd just be alone there. What's the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they're not gonna switch now.
Just ditch WhatsApp. Don't give in to social pressure to install malware on your phone
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Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It's nearly the same. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.
Oh well.
"But why, everyone is on WhatsApp", and also a lot of businesses.
"Privacy? I've got nothing to hide, what are they gonna do eith my info?" -
To get encryption one must start a "secret chat". It's an opt-in! Regular users will not even know the option exists, that's how well hidden it is.
Regular chats? Plainly readable on the server.
The main differences between a regular chat and a secret chat in Telegram, from a security standpoint, are:
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End-to-End Encryption
• Regular Chat: Messages are encrypted client-server-server-client, meaning Telegram servers can technically access the content.
• Secret Chat: Messages are end-to-end encrypted, so only you and the recipient can read them. Not even Telegram can decrypt them. -
Cloud Storage
• Regular Chat: Messages are stored in the cloud. You can access them from any device logged into your Telegram account.
• Secret Chat: Messages are device-specific and not stored in the cloud. They can only be read on the devices where the secret chat was initiated. -
Self-Destruct Timer
• Regular Chat: No self-destruct functionality.
• Secret Chat: You can set a self-destruct timer for messages after they’re read. -
Forwarding
• Regular Chat: Messages can be freely forwarded.
• Secret Chat: Messages cannot be forwarded. -
Screenshots
• Regular Chat: Screenshots are not restricted or notified.
• Secret Chat: Telegram tries to prevent or notify about screenshots (depends on the OS).
Summary:
Use secret chats if you need maximum privacy, as they’re more secure and don’t rely on Telegram’s servers to store message content. However, they’re less convenient because you lose cloud sync and multi-device support.
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