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Signal – an ethical replacement for WhatsApp

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    There are many such apps. The page links to EFF one which ranked some messaging apps and included stuff like Threema (though good luck getting anyone to use it because it's a paid version). Then, there is Briar, available on F Droid as well, which runs on a decentralised model but I don't think I know anyone IRL who has even heard of it.

    Telegram, I think, Atleast in my country is the second most popular thing behind WhatsApp but in it's default state, it's less secure and one needs to enable e2e encryption(read : secret chats).

    I am willing to move to almost any service ( I mean, I still use IRC, so..) but the main point is would anyone I know be on them? I once gave Signal a try but quickly wound uninstalling it because there was no one I knew there.

    I dislike WhatsApp as well (it's desktop variant is so slow and takes such a long time to sync messages plus Telegram has better inline support for images for example compared to Meta's version). It doesn't help that it's status page also promotes useless channels and that it is a hub of misinformation.

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    After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.

    It's still an American company, so it's not ideal. But it's still significantly better better than letting a tech giant like Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.

    WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that. We can worry about the American elephant in the room later.

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    It's ethical because it runs on donations and has a non-profit business model.

    Meta likely spends at least $1 billion a year running WhatsApp.

    Please donate to Signal if you use it.

  • There are many such apps. The page links to EFF one which ranked some messaging apps and included stuff like Threema (though good luck getting anyone to use it because it's a paid version). Then, there is Briar, available on F Droid as well, which runs on a decentralised model but I don't think I know anyone IRL who has even heard of it.

    Telegram, I think, Atleast in my country is the second most popular thing behind WhatsApp but in it's default state, it's less secure and one needs to enable e2e encryption(read : secret chats).

    I am willing to move to almost any service ( I mean, I still use IRC, so..) but the main point is would anyone I know be on them? I once gave Signal a try but quickly wound uninstalling it because there was no one I knew there.

    I dislike WhatsApp as well (it's desktop variant is so slow and takes such a long time to sync messages plus Telegram has better inline support for images for example compared to Meta's version). It doesn't help that it's status page also promotes useless channels and that it is a hub of misinformation.

    Signal has been a good option because you can get "normal" people to use it, which hasn't been true for many of the alternatives (except Telegram, but that's a mess).

  • There are many such apps. The page links to EFF one which ranked some messaging apps and included stuff like Threema (though good luck getting anyone to use it because it's a paid version). Then, there is Briar, available on F Droid as well, which runs on a decentralised model but I don't think I know anyone IRL who has even heard of it.

    Telegram, I think, Atleast in my country is the second most popular thing behind WhatsApp but in it's default state, it's less secure and one needs to enable e2e encryption(read : secret chats).

    I am willing to move to almost any service ( I mean, I still use IRC, so..) but the main point is would anyone I know be on them? I once gave Signal a try but quickly wound uninstalling it because there was no one I knew there.

    I dislike WhatsApp as well (it's desktop variant is so slow and takes such a long time to sync messages plus Telegram has better inline support for images for example compared to Meta's version). It doesn't help that it's status page also promotes useless channels and that it is a hub of misinformation.

    If you quickly uninstall it because you don’t know anyone using it it sounds like you’re part of the problem. If someone you know installs it to try it out that’s one less person they see as well. Personally I got the vast majority of my friend group to move to it years ago by just saying like “hey Facebook sucks we should move to signal”. If you don’t want to do that should at least leave it installed it’s not like it’s taking up much space

  • There are many such apps. The page links to EFF one which ranked some messaging apps and included stuff like Threema (though good luck getting anyone to use it because it's a paid version). Then, there is Briar, available on F Droid as well, which runs on a decentralised model but I don't think I know anyone IRL who has even heard of it.

    Telegram, I think, Atleast in my country is the second most popular thing behind WhatsApp but in it's default state, it's less secure and one needs to enable e2e encryption(read : secret chats).

    I am willing to move to almost any service ( I mean, I still use IRC, so..) but the main point is would anyone I know be on them? I once gave Signal a try but quickly wound uninstalling it because there was no one I knew there.

    I dislike WhatsApp as well (it's desktop variant is so slow and takes such a long time to sync messages plus Telegram has better inline support for images for example compared to Meta's version). It doesn't help that it's status page also promotes useless channels and that it is a hub of misinformation.

    Signal used to be the best answer to this conundrum, since it would use its own internal protocols if it could or fall back to SMS if it couldn't, unfortunately they decided to drop SMS support a few years ago, citing users that sent sensitive information not realizing they were using SMS (that always felt kinda flimsy). I really disliked this change, because it raised the difficulty of adoption, from just getting people to replace their default app with Signal to making them manage multiple apps.

    Now though, you basically need to advocate socially for the change you want to see in the world. Anecdotally, I started using Signal when they still supported SMS to talk with 1 friend group, and eventually convinced most of my closest family groups to also use it, many after SMS support was dropped. Apart from 1 tech illiterate elderly couple and 1 extended family member, I haven't received any personal (non-company related) text messages in like 5 months.

  • Signal has been a good option because you can get "normal" people to use it, which hasn't been true for many of the alternatives (except Telegram, but that's a mess).

    The problem is that it was easier to get people to move to Telegram since it had an abundance of features compared to WhatsApp which was compelling for the average person that doesn't care about encryption. Signal doesn't have any of these features that make it enticing for the person.

  • After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.

    It's still an American company, so it's not ideal. But it's still significantly better better than letting a tech giant like Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.

    WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that. We can worry about the American elephant in the room later.

    Sadly many still don't want to switch. My most active chats are in signal now but the large majority of chats are still on whatsapp

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    For now anyways lol

  • If you quickly uninstall it because you don’t know anyone using it it sounds like you’re part of the problem. If someone you know installs it to try it out that’s one less person they see as well. Personally I got the vast majority of my friend group to move to it years ago by just saying like “hey Facebook sucks we should move to signal”. If you don’t want to do that should at least leave it installed it’s not like it’s taking up much space

    Quickly as in I had it for multiple months. Just like I did with Threema and Briar and XMPP apps and what not. Nobody ever showed up. There was a time when I was carrying more chat apps than folks I used to chat with

    There is technically one phonebook contact of mine on Signal but he primarily uses Telegram as primary chat thingy.

    It then occurred to me that IRL most folks don't care about chat apps. They care about chatting. The most I have seen folks are on Whatsapp, Telegram and Snapchat (last of which is really bad).

    Edit: there was/is Session as well. It started as a fork of Signal before moving to its own standard. It doesn't require even a phone number for verification. I think I once installed it for talking to a random stranger on the internet.

  • After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.

    It's still an American company, so it's not ideal. But it's still significantly better better than letting a tech giant like Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.

    WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that. We can worry about the American elephant in the room later.

    There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.

    Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).

  • There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.

    Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).

    They also offer Threema Libre on F-Droid for all us folks who degoogled their phone

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    How about matrix?

  • There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.

    Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).

    Yeah, but Threema has basically no momentum behind it at all at this point.
    I'm putting my social capital behind the option that currently stands the most chance of beating out Whatsapp

  • For now anyways lol

    What does this mean

  • How about matrix?

  • Yeah, but Threema has basically no momentum behind it at all at this point.
    I'm putting my social capital behind the option that currently stands the most chance of beating out Whatsapp

    Threema has a pretty big momentum in some countries.

  • There are many such apps. The page links to EFF one which ranked some messaging apps and included stuff like Threema (though good luck getting anyone to use it because it's a paid version). Then, there is Briar, available on F Droid as well, which runs on a decentralised model but I don't think I know anyone IRL who has even heard of it.

    Telegram, I think, Atleast in my country is the second most popular thing behind WhatsApp but in it's default state, it's less secure and one needs to enable e2e encryption(read : secret chats).

    I am willing to move to almost any service ( I mean, I still use IRC, so..) but the main point is would anyone I know be on them? I once gave Signal a try but quickly wound uninstalling it because there was no one I knew there.

    I dislike WhatsApp as well (it's desktop variant is so slow and takes such a long time to sync messages plus Telegram has better inline support for images for example compared to Meta's version). It doesn't help that it's status page also promotes useless channels and that it is a hub of misinformation.

    A few friends of mine use Threema, because they care about privacy and are more than happy to pay to have it. Signal comes third, behind Telegram, even.

  • There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.

    Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).

    And Switzerlands records in terms of privacy sadly is far worse than most people think - even with the last attack being repelled.

    Matrix (preferably on a non-matrix.org instance) currently is the preferable non US and privacy friendly way.

  • We're Not Innovating, We’re Just Forgetting Slower

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    The author’s take is detached from reality, filled with hypocrisy and gatekeeping. "Opinionated" is another term - for friendliness and neutrality. Complaining about reality means a degree of detachment from it by intention. When was the last time, Mr author, you had to replace a failed DIMM in your modern computer? When was the last time, Mr commenter, you had to make your own furniture because it's harder to find a thing of the right dimensions to buy? But when that was more common, it was also easier to get the materials and the tools, because ordering things over the Internet and getting them delivered the next day was less common. In terms of managing my home I feel that 00s were nicer than now. Were the centralized "silk road" of today with TSMC kicked out (a nuke, suppose, or a political change), would you prefer less efficient yet more distributed production of electronics? That would have less allowance for various things hidden from users, that happen in modern RAM. Possibly much less. If there was no technological or production cost improvement, we’d just use the old version. I think their point was that there's no architectural innovation in some things. Yes, there is a regular shift in computing philosophy, but this is driving by new technologies and usually computing performance descending to be accessibly at commodity pricing. The Raspberry Pi wasn’t a revolutionary fast computer, but it changed the world because it was enough computing power and it was dirt cheap. Maybe those shifts are in market philosophies in tech. I agree, there is something appealing about it to you and me, but most people don’t care…and thats okay! To them its a tool to get something done. They are not in love with the tool, nor do they need to be. There's a screwdriver. I can imagine there's a fitting basic amount of attention a piece of knowledge gets. I can imagine some person not knowing how to use a screwdriver (substitute with something better) is below that. And some are far above that, maybe. I think the majority of humans is below the level of knowledge computers in our reality require. That's not the level you or the author possess. That's about the level I possessed in my childhood, nothing impressive. Mr. author, no one is stopping you from using your TI-99 today, but in fact you didn’t use it to write your article either. Why is that? Because the TI-99 is a tiny fraction of the function and complexity of a modern computer. Creating something close to a modern computer from discrete components with “part numbers you can look up” would be massively expensive, incredibly slow, and comparatively consume massive amounts of electricity vs today’s modern computers. It would seem we are getting a better deal from the same amount of energy spent with modern computers then. Does this seem right to you? It's philosophy and not logic, but I think you know that for getting something you pay something. There's no energy out of nowhere. Discrete components may not make sense. But maybe the insane efficiency we have is paid for with our future. It's made possible by centralization of economy and society and geopolitics, which wasn't needed to make TI-99. Do you think a surgeon understands how a CCD electronic camera works that is attached to their laparoscope? Is the surgeon un-educated that they aren’t fluent in circuit theory that allows the camera to display the guts of the patient they’re operating on? A surgeon has another specialist nearby, and that specialist doesn't just know these things, but also a lot of other knowledge necessary for them and the surgeon to unambiguously communicate, avoiding fatal mistakes. A bit more expense is spent here than just throwing a device at a surgeon not understanding how it works. A fair bit. Such gatekeeping! So unless you know the actual engineering principles behind a device you’re using, you shouldn’t be allowed to use it? Why not: Such respect! In truth, why wouldn't we trust students to make good use of understanding of their tools and the universe around them, since every human's corpus of knowledge is unique and wonderful, and not intentionally limit them. Innovation isn’t just creating new features or functionality. In fact, most I’d argue is taking existing features or functions and delivering them for substantially less cost/effort. Is change of policy innovation? In our world I see a lot of that. Driven by social and commercial and political interests naturally. As I’m reading this article, I am thinking about a farmer watching Mr. author eat a sandwich made with bread. A basic touch on your thoughts further is supposed to be part of school program in many countries. Perhaps, but these simple solutions also can frequently only offer simple functionality. Additionally, “the best engineering solutions” are often some of the most expensive. You don’t always need the best, and if best is the only option, then that may mean going without, which is worst than a mediocre solution and what we frequently had in the past. Does more complex functionality justify this? Who decides what we need? Who decides what is better and what is worse? This comes to policy decisions again. Authority. I think modern authority is misplaced, and were it not, we'd have an environment more similar to what the author wants. The reason your TI-99 and my c64 don’t require constant updates is because they were born before the concept of cybersecurity existed. If you’re going to have internet connected devices they its a near requirement to receive updates for security. Not all updates are for security. And an insecure device still can work years after years. If you don’t want internet connected devices, you can get those too, but they may be extremely expensive, so pony up the cash and put your money where your mouth is. Willpower is a tremendous limitation which people usually ignore. It's very hard to do this when everyone around doesn't. It would be very easy if you were choosing for yourself without network effects and interoperability requirements. So your argument for me doesn't work in your favor, when looking closely. (Similar to "if you disagree with this law, you can explain it at the police station".) Don’t think even a DEC PDP 11 mainframe sold in the same era was entirely known by a handful of people, and even that is a tiny fraction of functionality of today’s cheap commodity PCs. There's a graphical 2d space shooter game for PDP-11. Just saying. Also on its architecture some Soviet clones were made, in the form factor of PCs. With networking capabilities, they were used as command machines for other kinds of simpler PCs, or for production lines, and could be used as file shares, IIRC. I don't remember what that was called, but the absolutely weirdest part was seeing in comments people remembering using that in university computer labs and even in school computer labs, so that actually existed in the USSR. Kinda expensive though, even without Soviet inefficiency. It was made as a consumer electronics product with the least cost they thought they could get away with and have it still sell. Yes, which leads to different requirements today. This doesn't stop the discussion. That leads it to the question what changed. We are not obligated to take the perpetual centralization of economies and societies like some divine judgement. We don’t need most of these consumer electronics to last. Who's we? Are you deciding what will Intel RnD focus on, or what will Microsoft change in their OS and applications, or what will Apple produce? Authority, again. If it still works, why isn’t he using one? Could it be he wants the new features and functionality like the rest of us? Yes. It still works for offline purposes. It doesn't work where the modern web is not operable with it. This in my opinion reinforces their idea, not yours. These are my replies. I'll add my own principal opinion - a civilization can be as tall as a human forming it. Abstractions leak, and our world is continuous, so all abstractions leak. To know which do and don't for the particular purpose, you need to know principles. You can use abstractions without looking inside them to build a system inside an architecture, but you can't build an architecture and pick real world solutions for those abstractions without understanding those real wold solutions. Also horizontal connections between abstractions are much more tolerant to leaks than vertical ones. And there's no moral law forbidding us to look above our current environment to understand in which directions it may change.
  • Algorithmic Sabotage Manifesto.

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    How can you write so many words but say so little.
  • Judge briefly pauses 23andMe bankruptcy sale amid California's appeal

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    wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW
    Most still are/can be. Enough that I find it hard to believe people are missing out without podcasts through these paid services.
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    I think you're missing some key points. Any file hosting service, no matter what, will have to deal with CSAM as long as people are able to upload to it. No matter what. This is an inescapable fact of hosting and the internet in general. Because CSAM is so ubiquitous and constant, one can only do so much to moderate any services, whether they're a large corporation are someone with a server in their closet. All of the larger platforms like 'meta', google, etc., mostly outsource that moderation to workers in developing countries so they don't have to also provide mental health counselling, but that's another story. The reason they own their own hardware is because the hosting services can and will disable your account and take down your servers if there's even a whiff of CSAM. Since it's a constant threat, it's better to own your own hardware and host everything from your closet so you don't have to eat the downtime and wait for some poor bastard in Nigeria to look through your logs and reinstate your account (not sure how that works exactly though).
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    paraphrand@lemmy.worldP
    Network Effects.
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    "Extra Verification steps" I know how large social media companies operate. This is all about increasing the value of Reddit users to advertisers. The goal is to have a more accurate user database to sell them. Zuckerberg literally brags to corporations about how good their data is on users: https://www.facebook.com/business/ads/performance-marketing Here, Zuckerberg tells corporations that Instagram can easily manipulate users into purchasing shit: https://www.facebook.com/business/instagram/instagram-reels Always be wary of anything available for free. There are some quality exceptions (CBC, VLC, The Guardian, Linux, PBS, Wikipedia, Lemmy, ProPublica) but, by and large, "free" means they don't care about you. You are just a commodity that they sell. Facebook, Google, X, Reddit, Instagram... Their goal is keep people hooked to their smartphone by giving them regular small dopamine hits (likes, upvotes) followed by a small breaks with outrageous content/emotional content. Keep them hooked, gather their data, and sell them ads. The people who know that best are former top executives : https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphone-addiction-silicon-valley-dystopia https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/business/addictive-technology.html https://www.today.com/parents/teens/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen-rcna15256