Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann
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If they only cared about thwarting malware they could have just relied on code signing via public certificate authorities, like with binaries on Windows.
The point is so that most people can't or won't figure it out or get discouraged.
So that in time, google's "unwanted" software will be starved of attention and funds to continue being developped and these "weeds" in their garden slowly wither and die -
I find it very strange how many people in the comments here think the solution is to buy an iPhone. Maybe you are all just rich and can afford to spend $1000+ based on vibes, but considering the Android market still has a massive value advantage I'm not really sure what the point of switching is. This all feels very similar to how some Westerners decided Chinese tech and even the Chinese government were suddenly problem-free just because Americans elected Trump for a second time.
The upgrade cycle on iphones is longer than that on android. $1200 flagship samsung phone turns to shit after 2 years. $1100 iphone keeps chugging for 4-5. The android rot is real. Apple is far from perfect but the phones last way longer on average and end up having a lower cost overtime. That is if youre not buying bottom of the barrel budget phones to compare against.
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This is the risk of "trusted computing" architectures. Who is governing the "trusted" part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that's how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I'm not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years ... That's why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice.... Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there's a signature to ensure that the app hasn't been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it's security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?... Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We've been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That's how SSL works, that's how the Internet works, that's how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like... Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that's trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it's own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
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So yeah we'll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we'll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
Who is we? what group of people has the dev funding and time to produce FOSS hardware and software to compete with the average android phone?
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I don't see how the DMA would cause this other than Google preemptively setting themselves up for malicious compliance. The whole point of the DMA seems to be to give users choice not take it away.
I think you're on point with the malicious compliance. Google doesn't want to give up power and control. Requiring all installations to run through them seems to be their workaround.
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This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo
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The upgrade cycle on iphones is longer than that on android. $1200 flagship samsung phone turns to shit after 2 years. $1100 iphone keeps chugging for 4-5. The android rot is real. Apple is far from perfect but the phones last way longer on average and end up having a lower cost overtime. That is if youre not buying bottom of the barrel budget phones to compare against.
All of my old phones work fine as the last time they were updated. My 10 year old Sony xperia z3c would be fine except for security updates and it's only 3g, and the storage on it is quite measly. I still use it everyday for playing music, though.
Most of the speed issues are google bloat. Play services are absolute hogs, and anything that needs them will not work on this phone, but everything that doesn't is perfectly fine. So I'm basically stuck with f-droid apps. Which is fine, because it's a glorified iPod at this point
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When it comes to the current final frontier, Linux phones, what brands/models would be the best option? Or are you all really recommending iPhones?
I'm looking at Fairphone 6. EU based, has an option called /e/os which is basically degoogled Android, and it also has full support for Ubuntu Touch (Linux phone).
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Waydroid works really well to run
Android apps on mobile Linux, even for games. Doesn't help for banking apps though as they'll usually lock you out due to not passing Google safety checks.Isn't Waydroid shady?
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Wait, Linux phones are a thing? How do they get the market share to compete with the big tech?
That't the neat part, they don't. They're still very niche
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They provide the OS, what makes you think that kind of tracking isn't already happening?
App stores provide the apks but then you'll use your phone's installer to actually, well, install the apks.There are some alternatives to the default apk installers
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I trust in independent reviews, reproducible tests and hard numbers, not in brand cultivated images and subjective choices.
I don't care if it comes for Audeze, Sony, or a Chinese Knockoff, numbers doesn't lie.did... did you just call sennheiser a chinese knockoff? dude, know when to bow out
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The only answer is money at that point. I don't know how much phones are these days, but aren't iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
The regular iPhone and S25 are exactly the same price.
The S25 ultra is $100 MORE expensive than the iPhone 16 pro max.
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Im sure the us uses its tech dominance to sway political opinions one way or another in my country (brazil). And spying on people is a requirement for that. It seems like an attitude in line with the history of the relations between the us and brazil (and countless other countries). China probably tries that too, although i dont have a strong historical evidence for that disposition from china.
not disagreeing in any way, but just sharing reputable sources on that statement before anyone says it is a "conspiracy":
Wikileaks: US 'routinely spied' on Brazil
Wikileaks says it has evidence that the United States has routinely spied on senior Brazilian government officials since 2011 or earlier.
BBC News (www.bbc.com)
US ‘spied on Brazilian president and top officials’
Whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks publishes NSA list of 29 phone numbers of top officials that were bugged.
Al Jazeera (www.aljazeera.com)
Also, given that we are almost 10 years afte this article, I'm pretty sure any sane person (by that I mean someone who is not bolsonarist) can see where the (predictive) article agrees or disagrees with reality (past brazilian news and even memory of events):
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First of all, you're forgetting that the actual problem is that the headphone jack does not require you remove bluetooth from the device. The issue here is giving user less options and more costly "solutions".
The cable often gets tangled, and it's a pain in the ass to untangle it
Git gud. It's not that hard to roll up the cable so that it doesn't tangle. Worst case scenario, you can buy a small case.
The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
Use headphones with a replaceable wire. That way you can use a cable with or without a mic or use different lentghs. Hell, you can even make your own and they're cheap. Even if the wire isn't easily replaceable, most headphones can be fixed with a bit of patience and a soldering iron.
Even when the cable isn't tangled, just arranging the wire so it's out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
You're just doing mental gymnastics at this point.
Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it's out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
Or you can, I don't know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
Because of the wire, you're limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that's more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you're listening to.
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin'.
If you're doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can't put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you're moving to the sink to wash them off.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You're cooking in a kitchen. Lose the headphones.
In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that's convenient.
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won't have this """problem""".
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
New problem created. Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can't do that easily because you have this wire running through your shirt connecting your phone to your headphones. Also, if it's winter, now your phone has to go in an inner pocket not an outer one so you can't easily access it anymore.
Or you can, I don't know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
And start blasting whatever you're listening to to the whole world? Well, you could pause what you're listening to first. Don't you see how this is much less convenient than wireless headphones where you don't have to make all these compromises?
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin'.
Ah, accept a less convenient alternative because of the limitations of the wires. Sure, sounds great.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You're cooking in a kitchen.
You're cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise? What's wrong with you. Use headphones, you're in a kitchen!
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won't have this """problem""".
Now you have the other problems with your phone being inside an inner pocket and not easily accessible for doing things like taking pictures or doing NFT transactions. You really haven't thought this through, have you?
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This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo
Yeah I'm going graphene and if it's too problematic may as well go apple. Freedom was the whole reason for choosing Android over Apple
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This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo
Similar story here. I've got apps that I need to use from developers that are not around anymore. My old phone only needs wifi and I've disabled/uninstalled everything else. The phones battery last like 7 days now.
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I'm pretty curious about the C2, as well, but don't live in their market, and don't want to pay 100% of the phone cost in shipping fees, etc. And after all that, I have no guarantee of support. As for the €60 per year, my latest phone is an S22 Ultra, half of whose features I no longer use due to the updated Samsung TOS. I can absorb that cost for the sake of updates, if they'd let me.
The forums suggest there are quite a lot of bugs and the device is slow. I hope Sailfish OS continues to improve but for a daily driver I'm leaning towards Graphene OS as the best option for now.
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Apple hardware ahead of Android? I'll have what you're having!
a18pro beats M3 max in single core. Compared to 7840hs, it has 40% high single score geekbench 6, though 50% less multicore. Even beats ai395max at single score. Android competition catches up to even in gaming/gpu, but single core/responsiveness is still light years ahead. a19 next month, likely. M3 ultra has competitive aspects to xeon and epyc. Apple definitely has a lead on arm implementations.
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did... did you just call sennheiser a chinese knockoff? dude, know when to bow out
Hell no. I'm well aware it is a good audio brand (german I think, but may be mistaken)
What I wanted to say here is that I prefer an objective good quality product, adapted to my needs, to a brand name. Even well known brands sometimes make bad products.
As an example, I have a Sony WH-1000XM3. But if I'd be interested in an XM4, there is no way in hell I'd buy an XM5, because of some shitty choices they took (no more foldable design, forced adaptative ANC). Maybe the XM6 will end up of interest to me, I did not yet check its specs, but considering I recently changed my current XM3 battery, I won't be back on the market until the XM7 or XM8.
