Apple is significantly behind and arrived late to the whole AI hype, so of course it's in their absolute best interest to keep showing how LLMs aren't special or amazingly revolutionary.

They're not wrong, but the motivation is also pretty clear.

You know, despite not really believing LLM "intelligence" works anywhere like real intelligence, I kind of thought maybe being good at recognizing patterns was a way to emulate it to a point...

But that study seems to prove they're still not even good at that. At first I was wondering how hard the puzzles must have been, and then there's a bit about LLM finishing 100 move towers of Hanoï (on which they were trained) and failing 4 move river crossings. Logically, those problems are very similar... Also, failing to apply a step-by-step solution they were given.

"It's part of the history of the field of artificial intelligence that every time somebody figured out how to make a computer do something—play good checkers, solve simple but relatively informal problems—there was a chorus of critics to say, 'that's not thinking'." -Pamela McCorduck´.
It's called the AI Effect.

As Larry Tesler puts it, "AI is whatever hasn't been done yet.".

No, it shows how certain people misunderstand the meaning of the word.

You have called npcs in video games "AI" for a decade, yet you were never implying they were somehow intelligent. The whole argument is strangely inconsistent.

This is why I say these articles are so similar to how right wing media covers issues about immigrants.

There's some weird media push to convince the left to hate AI. Think of all the headlines for these issues. There are so many similarities. They're taking jobs. They are a threat to our way of life. The headlines talk about how they will sexual assault your wife, your children, you. Threats to the environment. There's articles like this where they take something known as twist it to make it sound nefarious to keep the story alive and avoid decay of interest.

Then when they pass laws, we're all primed to accept them removing whatever it is that advantageous them and disadvantageous us.

Because it's a fear-mongering angle that still sells. AI has been a vehicle for scifi for so long that trying to convince Boomers that of won't kill us all is the hard part.

I'm a moderate user for code and skeptic of LLM abilities, but 5 years from now when we are leveraging ML models for groundbreaking science and haven't been nuked by SkyNet, all of this will look quaint and silly.

I'm going to write a program to play tic-tac-toe. If y'all don't think it's "AI", then you're just haters. Nothing will ever be good enough for y'all. You want scientific evidence of intelligence?!?! I can't even define intelligence so take that! \s

Seriously tho. This person is arguing that a checkers program is "AI". It kinda demonstrates the loooong history of this grift.

The paper doesn’t say LLMs can’t reason, it shows that their reasoning abilities are limited and collapse under increasing complexity or novel structure.

Performance eventually collapses due to architectural constraints, this mirrors cognitive overload in humans: reasoning isn’t just about adding compute, it requires mechanisms like abstraction, recursion, and memory. The models’ collapse doesn’t prove “only pattern matching”, it highlights that today’s models simulate reasoning in narrow bands, but lack the structure to scale it reliably. That is a limitation of implementation, not a disproof of emergent reasoning.

This sort of thing has been published a lot for awhile now, but why is it assumed that this isn't what human reasoning consists of? Isn't all our reasoning ultimately a form of pattern memorization? I sure feel like it is. So to me all these studies that prove they're "just" memorizing patterns don't prove anything other than that, unless coupled with research on the human brain to prove we do something different.

But for something like solving a Towers of Hanoi puzzle, which is what this study is about, we're not looking for emotional judgements - we're trying to evaluate the logical reasoning capabilities. A sociopath would be equally capable of solving logic puzzles compared to a non-sociopath. In fact, simple computer programs do a great job of solving these puzzles, and they certainly have nothing like emotions. So I'm not sure that emotions have much relevance to the topic of AI or human reasoning and problem solving, at least not this particular aspect of it.

As for analogizing LLMs to sociopaths, I think that's a bit odd too. The reason why we (stereotypically) find sociopathy concerning is that a person has their own desires which, in combination with a disinterest in others' feelings, incentivizes them to be deceitful or harmful in some scenarios. But LLMs are largely designed specifically as servile, having no will or desires of their own. If people find it concerning that LLMs imitate emotions, then I think we're giving them far too much credit as sentient autonomous beings - and this is coming from someone who thinks they think in the same way we do! The think like we do, IMO, but they lack a lot of the other subsystems that are necessary for an entity to function in a way that can be considered as autonomous/having free will/desires of its own choosing, etc.

You've hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I wish that there's more progress in our understanding of human intelligence.

Agreed. We don't seem to have a very cohesive idea of what human consciousness is or how it works.

I'm going to write a program to play tic-tac-toe. If y'all don't think it's "AI", then you're just haters. Nothing will ever be good enough for y'all. You want scientific evidence of intelligence?!?! I can't even define intelligence so take that! \s

Seriously tho. This person is arguing that a checkers program is "AI". It kinda demonstrates the loooong history of this grift.

Performance collapses because luck runs out. Bigger destruction of the planet won't fix that.

I can envision a system where an LLM becomes one part of a reasoning AI, acting as a kind of fuzzy "dataset" that a proper neural network incorporates and reasons with, and the LLM could be kept real-time updated (sort of) with MCP servers that incorporate anything new it learns.

But I don't think we're anywhere near there yet.

did i do it here? also that's where i live, if i can't talk about womens struggle then i appologize

...... So you're saying there's a chance?

Who is "you"?

Just because some dummies supposedly think that NPCs are "AI", that doesn't make it so. I don't consider checkers to be a litmus test for "intelligence".