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Next-Gen Brain Implants Offer New Hope for Depression: AI and real-time neural feedback could transform treatments

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  • "What am I without my legs?" "What am I without my eyes?" "What am I without my arms?"

    What counts as "the real me" has been evolving for decades, if not centuries. I'm not volunteering for brain implants, but I'm not writing off the idea sometime in the future. As for AI, this is going to be more of the ML variety, not the LLM variety. Think more of "neurochemical levels have been trending in a certain direction for too long, release opposing neurochemicals to halt the spiral" and less of a little voice inside your head giving quite possibly incorrect answers to whatever you're thinking of.

    This is absolutely risky stuff, but less risky than recurring electroshock therapy? Hard for me to say. Note that the article is from nearly 2 decades ago, but there are articles in the news from just the last couple weeks.

    Those are some good nuances that definitely require a nuanced response and forced me to refine my thinking, thank you! I'm actually not claiming that the brain is the sole boundary of the real me, rather it is the majority of me, but my body is a contributor. The real me does change as my body changes, just in less meaningful ways. Likewise some changes in the brain change the real me more than others. However, regardless of what constitutes the real me or not, (and believe me, the philosophical rabbit hole there is one I love to explore), in this case I'm really just talking about the straightforward immediate implications of a brain implant on my privacy. An arm implant would also be quite bad in this regard, but a brain implant is clearly worse.

    There have already been systems that can display very rough, garbled images of what people are thinking of. I'm less worried about an implant that tells me what to do or controls me directly, and more worried about an implant that has a pretty accurate picture of my thoughts and reports it to authorities. It's surely possible to build a system that can approximate positive or negative mood states, and in combination this is very dangerous. If the government can tell that I'm happy when I think about Luigi Mangione, then they can respond to that information however they want. Eventually, in the same way that I am conditioned by the panopticon to stop at stop sign, even in the middle of a desolate desert where I can see for miles around that there are no cars, no police, no cameras - no anything that could possibly make a difference to me running the stop sign - the system will similarly condition automatic compliance in thoughts themselves. That is, compliance is brought about not by any actual exertion of power or force, but merely by the omnipresent possibility of its exertion.

    (For this we only need moderately complex brain implants, not sophisticated ones that actually control us physiologically.)

  • Those are some good nuances that definitely require a nuanced response and forced me to refine my thinking, thank you! I'm actually not claiming that the brain is the sole boundary of the real me, rather it is the majority of me, but my body is a contributor. The real me does change as my body changes, just in less meaningful ways. Likewise some changes in the brain change the real me more than others. However, regardless of what constitutes the real me or not, (and believe me, the philosophical rabbit hole there is one I love to explore), in this case I'm really just talking about the straightforward immediate implications of a brain implant on my privacy. An arm implant would also be quite bad in this regard, but a brain implant is clearly worse.

    There have already been systems that can display very rough, garbled images of what people are thinking of. I'm less worried about an implant that tells me what to do or controls me directly, and more worried about an implant that has a pretty accurate picture of my thoughts and reports it to authorities. It's surely possible to build a system that can approximate positive or negative mood states, and in combination this is very dangerous. If the government can tell that I'm happy when I think about Luigi Mangione, then they can respond to that information however they want. Eventually, in the same way that I am conditioned by the panopticon to stop at stop sign, even in the middle of a desolate desert where I can see for miles around that there are no cars, no police, no cameras - no anything that could possibly make a difference to me running the stop sign - the system will similarly condition automatic compliance in thoughts themselves. That is, compliance is brought about not by any actual exertion of power or force, but merely by the omnipresent possibility of its exertion.

    (For this we only need moderately complex brain implants, not sophisticated ones that actually control us physiologically.)

    I absolutely think that privacy within your own mind should be inviolable (trusting corporations and even government to agree is laughable). Iain Banks' Culture series explores some of these implications, as well as who should be in control of your mental state. It's messy and hard, and is one of the reasons I currently wouldn't get a brain implant. I might change my mind if I had ALS, for instance.

  • So, their AI is confidently wrong over 60% of the time, and they thought implanting it into people's brains was a good idea?? Wtf???

    All LLMs are AI, all AI is not an LLM.

  • Tell me you don’t understand what depression is without telling me you don’t understand what depression is. You can be depressed while living for free on a beach with no responsibilities. To suggest you can fix everyone’s depression with external changes is the height of “just go outside and you’ll feel better.”

  • Tell me you don’t understand what depression is without telling me you don’t understand what depression is. You can be depressed while living for free on a beach with no responsibilities. To suggest you can fix everyone’s depression with external changes is the height of “just go outside and you’ll feel better.”

    As someone who is literally living where others go on holidays while depressed let me tell you my depression is very much a response to the world being a rotting shithole. I am not sad because my life sucks but because so many others are suffering and I feel powerless to change it. The narrative of 'chemical imbalance' is a very reductive and misleading one.

    The feeling of powerlessness and disconnect also points to the cure I find for myself. Instead of implanting experimental BS inventions into my brain I try to be a force of connection, community and hope for others. There is very few things I can do as a single tiny person, but in these very small things lies the power of change for the better.

  • Depression replaced with horror?

    I'll take it.

    Horror might be more entertaining than depression, but the sheer idea of letting some techbro implant shit in my brain is so ridiculous, I'd probably try DIY lobotomy before I consider the AI option.

  • Chronic depression since a traumatic event trigger in 1989 here. They can shove those chips up their own arse.

    Depressed ever since puberty when I realised that Hollywood isn't real life.

  • Horror might be more entertaining than depression, but the sheer idea of letting some techbro implant shit in my brain is so ridiculous, I'd probably try DIY lobotomy before I consider the AI option.

    Lobotomy is a bit extreme. Try Trepanning first.

    Trepanning was sometimes performed on people who were behaving in a manner that was considered abnormal. In some ancient societies it was believed this released the evil spirits that were to blame.

  • Imagine witholding a medicine from a sick person, telling them it's the world that's broken. That's some Mother Teresa level evil.

    Wanting full control over the sick is also some Mother Teresa evil shit. It’s bad enough that life-saving medication is gate-kept by patents and pharmaceutical companies thriving on suffering (oh look, there she is again) but now people that suffer should give up access to what makes them them, their entire personhood, to some tech-bro ingrate? Is that truly the best option?

    I’d rather die.

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    Nope I'd definitely kill myself before letting an ai fuck with my brain

  • Nope I'd definitely kill myself before letting an ai fuck with my brain

    In a sense, AI is already fucking with everyone's brain when it comes to mass-produced ads and propaganda.

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    This sounds like an absolute nightmare. Listen to the techbro leaders talk about the general population, and imagine them owning what manages your brain... Ieam electrically, as opposed to indirectly.

  • I likely had undiagnosed depression for decades before I got treatment, from a GP, no less, after being dismissed by a psychiatrist. If you have concerns about your health, keep trying to get help, as long as you're able.

    It's been something i've thought about a lot, but at the moment it feels manageable to the point other things get priority.

  • As someone who is literally living where others go on holidays while depressed let me tell you my depression is very much a response to the world being a rotting shithole. I am not sad because my life sucks but because so many others are suffering and I feel powerless to change it. The narrative of 'chemical imbalance' is a very reductive and misleading one.

    The feeling of powerlessness and disconnect also points to the cure I find for myself. Instead of implanting experimental BS inventions into my brain I try to be a force of connection, community and hope for others. There is very few things I can do as a single tiny person, but in these very small things lies the power of change for the better.

    To be clear, I’m not claiming all depression can’t be influenced from external factors. And any BCI claiming to solve all depression should be treated like the plague. But there are types of depression that are solely a chemical imbalance that cannot be corrected through external means. And yeah, the “all depression is just a chemical imbalance” narrative is horribly flawed. But to claim none of them are a chemical imbalance is just as bad.

    Our current treatment for such types of depression are essentially still in the stone ages. Throw something at it, see what happens, adjust as needed. If a BCI can work around such a situation and offer a direct and targeted approach to the issue, and it goes through extensive testing, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be a good potential solution.

  • To be clear, I’m not claiming all depression can’t be influenced from external factors. And any BCI claiming to solve all depression should be treated like the plague. But there are types of depression that are solely a chemical imbalance that cannot be corrected through external means. And yeah, the “all depression is just a chemical imbalance” narrative is horribly flawed. But to claim none of them are a chemical imbalance is just as bad.

    Our current treatment for such types of depression are essentially still in the stone ages. Throw something at it, see what happens, adjust as needed. If a BCI can work around such a situation and offer a direct and targeted approach to the issue, and it goes through extensive testing, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be a good potential solution.

    Our current treatment for such types of depression are essentially still in the stone ages. Throw something at it, see what happens, adjust as needed.

    I know, and I guess watching a loved one being slowly destroyed by the trial and error that is 'modern' medication made me want to never consider it no matter how bad i felt - so this AI thing seems to be an even more dangerous trial and error method, because it seems even more invasive and less tested than the medication that's available now. On the other hand I've found self medication with plant medicine (yes, it's weed, weed, and more weed, but also quite a few other herbs I collect myself) quite efficient and safe. I've managed to keep myself going for a few bad years and have now reached the point where I went off it cold turkey - something my loved one never managed to do once he was hooked onto the meds. All done on my own terms, no doctor pretending they know better than me, giving myself the time I needed. So that's for a true stone age method, and given the fact our bodies are still working the same way as they did in the stone age I feel it might be safer than any novelty they have come up with in the last decades. Probably that's a controversial take on this, and I don't expect this to work for everybody (you need to have lots of time to be able to afford to rest and relax and have access to unlimited amounts of plant medicine).

  • This is how we get the movie “Upgrade”

    This was on my mind, but then I just watched it yesterday.

  • Thinking about AI trying to fix my brain cured my depression, thanks.

    I'm not sad anymore but due to a branding deal I always crave a fresh bag of Lays chips. That crispy fresh flavor with just the right amount of seasoning hits the spot every time. Lays, betcha can't eat just one. Anyways, at least I cry less now. You wanna get some Lays?

  • In a sense, AI is already fucking with everyone's brain when it comes to mass-produced ads and propaganda.

    In a sense, I'm already planning on killing myself

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    "I see the problem."

    Flicks switch

    "They had you set to sad instead of happy. Classic mistake."

  • I've been depressed for three decades and nothing I've tried so far has worked, but I'll be stone cold dead before they put fucking chips in my brain. /oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

    Mega dose of mushrooms. Have you really tried everything? Micro dosing as well?

  • Threads is nearing X's daily app users, new data shows

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    Always happy to see your content!
  • Windows 11 finally overtakes Windows 10 [in marketshare]

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    Yeah, and its most likely only due to them killing Windows 10 in the fall, which means a lot of companies have been working hard this year to replace a ton of computers before October. Anyone who has been down this road with 7 to 10 knows it will just cost more money if you need to continue support after that. They sell you a new license thats good for a year that will allow updates to continue. It doubles in cost every year after.
  • We need to stop pretending AI is intelligent

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    dsilverz@friendica.worldD
    @technocrit While I agree with the main point that "AI/LLMs has/have no agency", I must be the boring, ackchyually person who points out and remembers some nerdy things.tl;dr: indeed, AIs and LLMs aren't intelligent... we aren't so intelligent as we think we are, either, because we hold no "exclusivity" of intelligence among biosphere (corvids, dolphins, etc) and because there's no such thing as non-deterministic "intelligence". We're just biologically compelled to think that we can think and we're the only ones to think, and this is just anthropocentric and naive from us (yeah, me included).If you have the patience to read a long and quite verbose text, it's below. If you don't, well, no problems, just stick to my tl;dr above.-----First and foremost, everything is ruled by physics. Deep down, everything is just energy and matter (the former of which, to quote the famous Einstein equation e = mc, is energy as well), and this inexorably includes living beings.Bodies, flesh, brains, nerves and other biological parts, they're not so different from a computer case, CPUs/NPUs/TPUs, cables and other computer parts: to quote Sagan, it's all "made of star stuff", it's all a bunch of quarks and other elementary particles clumped together and forming subatomic particles forming atoms forming molecules forming everything we know, including our very selves...Everything is compelled to follow the same laws of physics, everything is subjected to the same cosmic principles, everything is subjected to the same fundamental forces, everything is subjected to the same entropy, everything decays and ends (and this comment is just a reminder, a cosmic-wide Memento mori).It's bleak, but this is the cosmic reality: cosmos is simply indifferent to all existence, and we're essentially no different than our fancy "tools", be it the wheel, the hammer, the steam engine, the Voyager twins or the modern dystopian electronic devices crafted to follow pieces of logical instructions, some of which were labelled by developers as "Markov Chains" and "Artificial Neural Networks".Then, there's also the human non-exclusivity among the biosphere: corvids (especially Corvus moneduloides, the New Caleidonian crow) are scientifically known for their intelligence, so are dolphins, chimpanzees and many other eukaryotas. Humans love to think we're exclusive in that regard, but we're not, we're just fooling ourselves!IMHO, every time we try to argue "there's no intelligence beyond humans", it's highly anthropocentric and quite biased/bigoted against the countless other species that currently exist on Earth (and possibly beyond this Pale Blue Dot as well). We humans often forgot how we are species ourselves (taxonomically classified as "Homo sapiens"). We tend to carry on our biological existences as if we were some kind of "deities" or "extraterrestrials" among a "primitive, wild life".Furthermore, I can point out the myriad of philosophical points, such as the philosophical point raised by the mere mention of "senses" ("Because it’s bodiless. It has no senses, ..." "my senses deceive me" is the starting point for Cartesian (René Descartes) doubt. While Descarte's conclusion, "Cogito ergo sum", is highly anthropocentric, it's often ignored or forgotten by those who hold anthropocentric views on intelligence, as people often ground the seemingly "exclusive" nature of human intelligence on the ability to "feel".Many other philosophical musings deserve to be mentioned as well: lack of free will (stemming from the very fact that we were unable to choose our own births), the nature of "evil" (both the Hobbesian line regarding "human evilness" and the Epicurean paradox regarding "metaphysical evilness"), the social compliance (I must point out to documentaries from Derren Brown on this subject), the inevitability of Death, among other deep topics.All deep principles and ideas converging, IMHO, into the same bleak reality, one where we (supposedly "soul-bearing beings") are no different from a "souless" machine, because we're both part of an emergent phenomena (Ordo ab chao, the (apparent) order out of chaos) that has been taking place for Æons (billions of years and beyond, since the dawn of time itself).Yeah, I know how unpopular this worldview can be and how downvoted this comment will probably get. Still I don't care: someone who gazed into the abyss must remember how the abyss always gazes us, even those of us who didn't dare to gaze into the abyss yet.I'm someone compelled by my very neurodivergent nature to remember how we humans are just another fleeting arrangement of interconnected subsystems known as "biological organism", one of which "managed" to throw stuff beyond the atmosphere (spacecrafts) while still unable to understand ourselves. We're biologically programmed, just like the other living beings, to "fear Death", even though our very cells are programmed to terminate on a regular basis (apoptosis) and we're are subjected to the inexorable chronological falling towards "cosmic chaos" (entropy, as defined, "as time passes, the degree of disorder increases irreversibly").
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    And then price us out
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    jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.worldJ
    Damn, I heard this mentioned somewhere as well! I don't remember where, though... The CIA is also involved with the cartels in Mexico as well as certain groups in the Middle East. They like to bring "democracy" to many countries that won't become a pawn of the Western regime.
  • The British jet engine that failed in the 'Valley of Death'

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    Giving up advancements in science and technology is stagnation. That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting giving up some particular, potential advancements in science and tecnology, which is a whole different kettle of fish and does not imply stagnation. Thinking it’s a good idea to not do anything until people are fed and housed is stagnation. Why do you think that?
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    I think the issue is people started buying etf instead of using Bitcoin themselves. Bitcoin as such has no value at all, it's only valuable if people use it for transactions.
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