Alternate title "Men so starved of sources of support they resort to talking to AI"

Edit: have started a new com for men to talk to each other instead of AI /c/reprieve@lemmy.zip

Better than nothing I guess. Obviously it's a privacy nightmare. But therapy is hard to reach nowadays and I've noticed that many men are reluctant to make that step. It'd be preferable if they did, but if ChatGPT can at least give an outlet for the emotions then it might just save a few people. Seeing men demolish themselves because they're too ashamed to seek help is something I've unfortunately seen quite often. Even though I'm aware of this I've still waited till it was way too late because I subconsciously didn't want to give in to the "weakness". I hate that men are conditioned this way, it costs lives.

And it's awesome. Men aren't allowed by others to show weakness. AI therapy genuinely helps a lot.

I mean, to a certain degree this is broadly true.

Like we have the numbers, younger generations are waaaay less likely to have had a relationship or sexual encounter by the same age/stage in their life as compared to previous generations, way more people just are relationship inexperienced.

This goes for both genders/sexes, though it is more prominent with younger men than women.

The overwhelming problem is that in the US, so much in person socialization is expensive, basically pay-gated, paywalled.

There are very few third places you can just hang out at for no cost. Public transit sucks or is non existant, cars are super unaffordable due to collapsing economy, and all our cities are designed for using cars to drive from place to place... so very few places are actually walk-navigable...

Everyone is increasingly overweight and overworked (or over homeworked, for students) and overstressed, so they can't or don't engage in group meet up hobbies or sports as much as they used to... and ironically even religiosity levels overall trending down means less people are going to church... all the traditional methods of getting socialization and expanding out a friend network in real life are withering.

So, the easier path is to get your socialization, of all kinds, primarily digitally.

But all those most common and popular ways of doing that are also massively manipulative with algos intentionally feeding you whatever ragebait slop appeals to you, personally.

It is very ironic that, as basically a 90s kid myself, very early tech adopter... my view of the vast majority of social media now is that it is basically a mentally harmful and addictive drug that people need to detox from... but when I tell younger people that, they say things like 'its not that deep bro, everybody has a (whatever) profile'.

There are lots of studies that show that very common levels of social media app usage... do actually reduce attention spans, spread dangerous misinformation, lower academic performance, cause negative self esteem by way of unrealistic standards, of beauty, lifestyle, wealth... brainrot is real, basically.

Like, I am all for the TikTok ban for kids. But also ban all short form video content for kids. Instagram, Youtube shorts, whatever.

This shit is melting peoples brains, it needs to be treated the same way you'd treat a drug epidemic.

We are now at the point where kids give so little of a fuck, have such tiny attention spans and need for constant, rapid fire stimulation... that half of adult Americans read below a 6th grade level, 20-30% of them read below a 2nd grade level, making them functionally illiterate... and thats just with Gen Z now mostly being in those young adult numbers, its gonna be even worse when Gen Alpha graduates and starts trying to enter society/the workforce.

EDIT:

This isn't even broadly unprecedented.

Look at Japan.

Hikkikomori.

The stagnant economy becomes overly financialized and corporatized and impossibly demanding... so people just drop out of it, or worse, kill themselves from the stress of trying to live up to its expectations...

And well then yeah, in person socializing broadly drops, relationship dynamics become strained and morph, birth rate plummets.

Give it 5 or 10 years and we'll have something resembling rent a boyfriend/girlfriend services and maid / stud cafes as well, as the stereotypified fascimile of socialization and having a real relstionship becomes a marketable product, and then industry.

Maybe a few areas will even properly legalize and regulate prostitution.

Granted, that'll be in any areas that remain even kind of blue.

The red areas will just go full theocrat and send you to jail for masturbating, but also re-legalize child marriage, and rework marriage laws into 'covenant marriage', where basically the woman functionally cannot divorce the husband.

In summary: cyberpunk hypercapitalism is in fact very very bad for healthy human relationship dynamics.

I mean, I know they fixed it, but LLMs once suggested jumping off a bridge if you searched for help with suicidal ideation

You get what you pay for. Would these same people take cancer treatments from the same LLM?

It's possible to reduce the privacy issues by using APIs with a local frontend. Given that APIs usually cater to companies instead of end consumers they actually have simple opt-outs for information logging.

Requires a bit of know-how, and you'll be paying for your llm per use (not that bad actually, I've personally averaged <10$/yr in api costs) but at least you get to have all your personal issues on your local device instead.

For a chatGPT-like experience you probably want the ooga booga web generation ui but there's others too.

Or it gets them into a negative feedback loop since AI hardly ever tries to contradict you.

But yeah. At least they're opening up to someone/something.

Or “men would rather talk to superpowered autocorrect rather than sharing their feelings with family and friends”

@gerryflap @bytesonbike

many men are reluctant to make that step

Sometimes it's not the patient to blame. I made the step, countless times since my childhood... I sought help... Result? Got several, diverging diagnostics, several medications that didn't work, until the most recent psychiatrist and psychologist some months ago: the psychiatrist said I got "nothing" (even when I had a fresh cut on my wrist) and the second "struggled to find any complaints from me". So I simply gave up on seeking medical care (and "care" in general, human or whatnot). I don't use AI for therapy because, as a former programmer, I'm deeply aware of their underlying Markov chain and NN algorithms, but sometimes their probabilistic outputs lead me to insights I couldn't get from any living Homo sapiens beings (such as the possibility that I have "Geschwind Syndrome", a condition of which will probably stay undiagnosed).

This response is why men feel scared and uncomfortable opening up. You are a part of the problem. For your male family members' sake, I hope you check in on them instead of just being sexist online.

Men feel scared and uncomfortable because they’re afraid to be told they were wrong to hide their feelings?

"Having trouble quitting heroin? A little bit of heroin can really alleviate those cravings!"

Have you ever considered not being like this?

If you really honestly don't understand why what you said was horrible I'm willing to have a conversation with you if you want to DM me to talk about it. For starters, men feel scared and uncomfortable because their serious problems will get made light of just like you did. Or told to "man up". Which I imagine was on the tip of your tongue

Have we considered this may be the only time it's actually justifiable to have real people controlling the "AI". Like instead of an underpaid tech worker from the global south answering coding questions, we get therapists to pretend to be AI so men will actually talk to them.

a terrible therapist at least has an ethics board

a terrible therapist at least has evidence-based interventions on their side

a terrible therapist at lest has the fact that ~80% of positive outcomes have nothing to do with the interventions or anything the therapist does besides show up and be cool (a statistic I remember quite well from grad school)

AI has none of these things

therapy isn't fucking magic. it's a relationship. you can't have a relationship with an LLM. there's no such thing as AI therapy, you're just training it to tell you about CBT worksheets while you bitch about your problems like you're in a nail salon

What a clickbait. Of course people are picking feee resource with zero friction over 120$ an hour half a day event.

therapy does not have to be expensive.

around 70% of my caseload is Medicaid and they don't pay a dime. the remainder is mostly DOC (prison), they only pay if we charge No Show fee. so they pay to not go to therapy. There's 1-2 people who are funded by the county. they pay a $7 copay per session

Therapy isn't expensive, luigi is.

As far as efficacy, we don't even have data suggesting AI therapy is effective. we have ample data, however, showing that the most important part of therapy is not what you do but the relationship itself. not individual efforts. so your theory about what therapy does for us is wrong. there's no relationship with an LLM. we have no reason to believe it would be any better than a paper journal and a CBT worksheet.

probably not but that's because sexism against men is normalized and you're not allowed to talk about it unless you're a neonazi for some reason.

side note, this is exactly why the "young broccoli haired boy to fascist brownshirt" pipeline exists. they have real and genuine issues and instead of getting any sort of community or support virtually every facet of society is telling them their issues are fake and that they are destined to be monsters. then someone like j peterson comes along and tells them "life isn't so bad, it's okay, just clean your room and be disciplined, it'll all start to look up soon champ.. and uh... also hate the gays, black people, and other minorities - they're the woke mob that left you abandoned like this!" people making shocked pikachu face at young men being hardcore MAGAts are so sorely out of touch with what being a man is like and the kinds of trauma that can stem from the male experience. it's obvious to most of us why this issue exists, i hope. this comment chain is a great example. if you even touch the topic you get barraged with people telling you to essentially shut the fuck up and stop entertaining the idea that men are possibly people too and not some root of all fucking evil in the world.

the amount of literal hate I see towards men in casual discourse is insane. can say the most psychotic shit in most circles nowadays but if you point your malice at the "right kinds" of people most won't even bat an eye. see people frequently talking about doing unhinged shit to others solely because they are a man or [insert other group they don't like generally for some stupid fucking reason] and there is a preconceived slight, danger, or aggression. leftists think they're better people morally but we're really not. i have seen the exact same bullshit bigotry promulgate every community i know of in the past few years. the same brainrot the conservatives have had since the tea partiers has infiltrated our spaces too. everyone genuinely is dumb, angry, and hateful now.

I am not wholly convinced that our culture being the target of multiple astroturfing campaigns hasn't degraded people's capability for nuance, compassion, empathy, and ontology.