Funny, I was just reading comments in another thread about people with mental health problems proclaiming how terrific it is. Especially concerning is how they had found value in the recommendations LLMs make and "trying those out." One of the commenters described themselves as "neuro diverse" and was acting upon "advice" from generated LLM responses.

And for something like depression, this is deeply bad advice. I feel somewhat qualified to weigh in on it as somebody who has struggled severely with depression and managed to get through it with the support of a very capable therapist. There's a tremendous amount of depth and context to somebody's mental condition that involves more deliberate probing to understand than stringing together words until it forms sentences that mimic human interactions.

Let's not forget that an LLM will not be able to raise alarm bells, read medical records, write prescriptions or work with other medical professionals. Another thing people often forget is that LLMs have maximum token lengths and cannot, by definition, keep a detailed "memory" of everything that's been discussed.

It's is effectively self-treatment with more steps.

I also don't know what you want from me.

You gave your opinion about Tik Tok girls, I disagreed. That's it, typical internet disagreement, you can move on now.

I won't change my opinion on this matter so stop chasing after me like a homeless beggar.

dude people here just want to dunk on men because it makes them feel good about themselves. it's that sad, and that simple. they don't care about having empathy for men, men are not 'people'. they are 'others'.

they don't really give a shit about... the issue at hand or the issues in the therapy industry/society that systematically disenfranchise many men.

unironically they want men to 'man up' and 'fix' the problems and never acknowledge them. Because that is inconvenient for them and their viewpoints.

because to them everything is a weird power struggle for their particular disenfranchised group, and they see anyone else acknowledging anything else struggles as a detriment to their cause. they lack the big brain thought that maybe lots of people suffer in lots of different ways and that it's not some zero-sum game about 'who suffers the most'.

as if men's issue with the mental health care system... don't also apply to to various other groups. of which any one person can belong to multiples of those groups.

ok.

but the problem is that real therapy is expensive, and unaccessible, while AI is freely accessible, even though it's shit.

and open ai is profiting from that.

I'm just saying the blame should be aimed at the corporations and the healthcare system, rather than someone who is desperate for help

incels are people. their problems are legitimate problems.

why society can't acknowledge this is beyond me. I guess because it's socially unpalatable.

incels or any extremist thing (terfs, religions extremists, etc) ... is a product of the same issues. but people just want those people to 'go away' and not address the issues that would actaully make them go away... because that is hard.

I can kinda understand the appeal. An AI isn't gonna judge you, an AI isn't gonna leave a mean comment or tell you to get over it and man up. It's giving an unnerving amount of personal information to corporations, but I can sympathise with the thoughts these men are having.

their problems are legitimate problems sure, but in a lot of cases problems with a lot of those groups can be summed up with a couple of things:

• it’s different to my world view and i don’t like it
• i think i deserve something and am not getting it

those are different kinds of problems to acknowledging your own feelings, or people are using me and trampling over me… both are deserving of help, but incels, terfs, extremists in general are harming others with their problems

you’re free to swing your arms until they come into contact with my body

these classes of people are harmful to others - i don’t think anyone thinks they aren’t deserving of help, but they are dangerous in a completely different way

Who is "they" because the "they" is other men.

So why are we like mad at women in the comments it's nonsense. Why disparage healthcare and therapy it's nonsense.

The issue at hand is one demographic struggles to extend empathy and therefore doesn't get it in return. Make the first step, be empathetic in your life and I swear if you respond saying you are I'm gonna laugh because no, reading your responses you're not, you're very "you" focused.

There's no power struggle, and any you sense is disenfranchised groups trying to get power back from, guess who?

Jesus. This thread is why I dont use lemmy more, and why it is good to pay attention in school kids, knowing just a little bit about the history and practice of psychiatric study would tell a body it was not designed 'by women for women' jfc. You tried Doom—but four-letter words gotta four-letter word, tap out, get a cuppa, enjoy your day.

Now flip that around and anytime you see or a hear a woman saying her man isn't emotionally available, just tell her he isn't your therapist.

... Do you see how this kind of framing is wildly unproductive, when either side engages in it?

Also worth noting that:

1. AI is arguably a surveillance technology that's built on decades of our patterns

2. The US government is increasingly authoritarian and has expressed interest in throwing neurodivergent people into labor camps

3. Large AI companies like OpenAI are signing contracts with the Department of defense

If I were a US citizen, I would be avoiding discussing my personal life with AI like the plague.

Uh, I am not intentionally trolling anyone.

To the best of my understanding... CBT has the largest amount of empirical data showing it actually helps a broad variety of people.

Yes, of course there are other forms of therapy that are more targetted and helpful for people with specific, identified conditions or diagnoses, or specific kinds of past trauma, etc.

This is why I phrased the sentence the way I did, with 'basically' as a qualifier, said 'most' people. I suppose I could have been a bit more clear and concise with that, my apologies.

There's no need to catastrophize and read a boat load of ill intent into what I said; we can have a good faith conversation here if you want to.

What are other broadly empirically verified to be helpful therapy methods that help a broad range of people?

I would genuinely like to know, so I could look into them.

I've heard DBT is showing promise, but I've not heard it is as widely empirically evidenced and verified, yet.

I also freely admit that I could have some details and specifics wrong here... I am after all recovering from 2 years of homelessness, multiple concussions, contusions, etc.

This is like, how conversations work, right?

If someone says something you know is false... you don't immediately assume they are an intentional badfaith disinfo agent, you instead say hey, you said this, I think that's incorrect, and let me tell you why.

Though I do have to point out the irony of me saying that I often encounter many psych field people who needlessly read hostile intent into what I say... and then you are here literally exemplifying that, by having a very emotionally charged reaction, while identifying yourself as being in the psych field.

That's so funny you say that because literally not what I'm saying, genuinely what I'm arguing about. Nice reading comprehension bozo.

Go on scroll up, find the first comment that talks about therapy NOT working for men.

Ironic gonna criticize Lemmy yet be stupid yourself. You tried kid.

You entirely derailed the topic by being dismissive of about 350 million people and just saying you don't give a fuck about them.

Thats not relevant or productive to attempting to seriously discuss broad social dynamics, at all, whatsoever.

And now you're just openly insulting me directly and personally, and you're now acting as if you are an authority figure who can direct the flow of this conversation.

You seem to have a bit of an anti-American/anti-homeless chip on your shoulder, and I don't much care for the sociopath vibes you're giving me, so I'll be blocking you now.

It’s is effectively self-treatment with more steps.

And for many people it's better than nothing and likely the best they can do. Waiting lists for a basic therapist in my area are months long. Shorter if you pay out of pocket, but that isn't affordable to average people because it's like 300-400 for a one hour session.

AI might also be giving them better advice than anyone else in their life.

Growing up I certainly had no role models in my entire community. I never found anyone who was remotely helpful until I went to an expensive college that had lots of resources and they were freely accessible to me. Mental, physical, and academic.

A lot of people fail to realize these resources simple do not exist in large swaths of the country/economic bracket. They are mostly concentrated in wealthy and educated areas and given to wealth educated people who live there. If a farmer in Nebraska needs therapy, they will have to drive to multiple hours to Omaha or another urban area to have a decent shot at getting any assistance. Not everyone lives in a major coastal city that have the bulk of these resources.

I dunno about advice, but LLMs are very good at re-stating my meandering thoughts in a concise way that's easy to communicate to others.

i pivot to wealth inequality because the wealthy have all the resources and the rest of us don't have enough.

that includes access to medical care and mental care. easiest way to get healthcare and therapy is to be rich so you can pay out of pocket and skip the limits/lines imposed by insurance companies.

a lot of people's mental and health problems would also simple be alleviated by being able to have better food and a better work-life balance, both which are privileges of the wealthy that the less economically fortunate do not have access to.

these are straight facts, but i'm sure you'll go into denial mode about how the poor and mentally unwell should just become their own therapists or something.

Men's inability to open up is a trained behavior, and is reinforced the most by the group doing the most child care: women. Everytime a boy that cries gets told to "man up" that stereotype is repeated to them. This produces an echo that reverbs through most of society, and especially children, who then mock peers that express emotions.

Women are training their own oppressors. There is enough blame around for all genders.

so are we going to help them, or are we going to wash our hands of them and let the problem fester and grow?

incels need positive reinforcement to loop them out of their cognitive loop. not shame and harassment that further entrenches it.

the easiest way to get someone who is hateful about some group or thing... is to introduce them to it in a positive manner.