i’d like to be very clear here… a lot of discussion about men’s spaces is thinly veiled sexism by incels… that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem, it just means that incels are attracted to “it’s not my fault”

that said, there’s a comment up thread that captures it pretty well

… mental health professionals all my 'issues' were blow way out of proportion … always 100% told me everything that happens to me is entirely my fault. they also told me it was normal/healthy to vent my feelings by doing productive things (like writing, exercising, relaxing), rather than viewing that as 'not addressing the problem'.

the issue with so much of this crap is that not only does nobody want to talk to men, it's that they don't want to listen and/or the tell us we are 'talking wrong'. even when we do talk to people, there is only a tiny window of acceptable things we an talk about and way we can talk about them or how selfish it is of him to vent/indulge his legitimate emotions.

… a man bursts into tears over his father dying of cancer and all the sudden everyone wants to tell him his reaction is too intense … someone in his life try to get him to 'open up' and then we he does he's met with nothing but hostility, disappointment, and eventually rejection

it’s a meme (not in a “haha” joke way: in the actual meaning of the world; a thing that is repeated often) these days that there are horrible men who tell women (re sexism) “you must have misunderstood”… and the point of that is that men don’t have the life experience as a minority to be able to understand sexism, transphobia, etc (people treat them differently, and even if they see it they often can’t identify it because they’re not accustomed to listening for it 24/7)

that same situation exists for men too… men are certainly not a minority, but nobody is allowed to say that someone’s experience is invalid… there’s a lot of people dismissing these experiences in this thread, and if it were reversed: a woman complaining about a man making a sexist comment, a gay man (of which i’m one) complaining about homophobia, there wouldn’t be any pushback at all because we’ve come to agree that this shit happens

we know that toxic masculinity exists, we know that societal expectations of men are sky high (the suicide rate for men in particular is HUGE)… we’re clearly doing something wrong, as a society, dealing with male mental health… when people come out and tell us their experiences, it absolutely is sexist to write off those experiences as invalid: “i don’t think that kind of thing happens because i haven’t seen it”, is absolutely (anything)-ist language

is it on the same level as problem as sexism or racism? probably not… but denying the problem helps nobody… denying the problem, in this case, makes the problem so much worse and pushes people to lash out and become sexist, racist, homophobic, etc (which is also not to remove blame from them - all those things are wrong and a personal choice and should have personal repercussions)

But keep screaming that anything that disagrees with your particular narrative that women are great and perpetual victims of men and men are always bad, I guess?

Incel talk

The only ‘side’ that has power is the wealthy.

Pivot to wealth inequality because?

But keep banging your gender war drum, it probably gives you meaning and purpose in life to collectively blame 'me’n for all the worlds ills as if anyone who has a penis or wants a penis is entirely the same.

You are the one who made the issue about differences in sex and/or gender.

No wonder you made no progress in therapy. You're completely obtuse.

Also, no one is blaming men for their life's problems. That person, would need therapy. Also, please don't speak for men as a pejorative, your views are not reflective of any kind of monolith within my sex as a class of people and continually self-victimising under the guise of speaking for men's issues is disingenuous and pathetic.

This is why you sucked in therapy and found it unhelpful. You're pissy, jaded and uncomfortable with the concept of being wrong. Classic men shit.

Empathy would fix that, show that you don't have to be so insecure because nobody else is that secure.

I expected you to mean people exhibiting toxicity and not reporting about it. I was surprised because the comments seemed civil at large. Thank you.

in australia we have (limited) free mental health services (i wanna say 8 free sessions with a therapist?)… this still holds true

it’s not only about money

Dude is nongendered everyone is a dude, nice try tho trying to pull this though

Another aussie here, Headspace is great too

yeah id say it’s not overt, but that’s kinda the problem… it’s almost difficult to identify, so when it comes to mental health for men a lot of the time society, therapists, etc almost gaslights us into thinking our problems aren’t problems

if it were overt it’d be easy to identify… the fact what it’s not, the fact that men are the majority, and are the problem in a lot of cases pushes people to certain conclusions (including ourselves about our own problems)

mental health is complex af

I don't agree

yup! and absolutely worth the mention that if you’re queer (qlife), struggling with specific issues - alcohol, gambling, finance, eating disorders, etc - there’s specific support available to a lot of people in australia, the US, europe, etc

if you need help, help is available! find one of these services who can help you find the specific support that you need, and go from there

as a gay man, i found a lot more help when i started seeing services that specialised in queer health

yall deserve someone who understands what you’re going through in life

Of course men will go to an AI for their problems, they can't fathom going to a woman for honest advice.

And as a result, they gaslight themselves with a worse version of ELIZA.

read the whole comment

Yeah.

and there needs to be more oversight and punishment for objectively bad therapists. and I dont mean bad as in their program didnt work for you, i mean bad, like ones that spend an entire session fellating themselves over how awesome they are, or tell you that they arent here to listen to you bitch and moan about your problems (someone I knew had a therapist say that to them) or whatever other objectively awful things bad therapists too.

and there needs to be more education about therapy, and how there are many different styles and approaches.. and not all work for everyone, The system should incentivize people being able to tell their therapist they appreciate their time, but it doesnt feel like their approach is working, and get refered to a different one with a different approach without drama, extra cost, extra paperwork, or headache.

Of course men will go to an AI for their problems, they can't fathom going to a woman for honest advice.

This seems a bit far-fetched, don’t you think? There could be so many reasons as to why someone would rather use AI than going to another person for advice (this is not just about women).

Honestly, as someone who actually went to therapy and yes, my therapist was a woman. It’s was quite tough to open up and be vulnerable.

I think for some people using AI, they might feel as if they’re not that vulnerable because it is not a person. However, they don’t realize that there’s data is being gathered.

And as a result, they gaslight themselves with a worse version of ELIZA.

With this, I can’t figure out whether you’re serious, trolling or just writing randomly.

good thing you're an authority on nothing then

You are the one that made this all about what does and doesn't apply to a specific area or country, into being a pro or anti whatever specific nationality discussion.

Like I don't disagree that we should fix our own country, it is our responsibility... but you could have just said 'Damn, is it really that bad in the States?' or something like that, without being dismissive and hostile for... basically the only reason is you're tired of hearing about America I guess?

???

Sorry I exist?

They are human beings who are more frequently able to relate to people who are similar to them based on shared experiences including social pressures. I don't think either gender is unable to relate to the other gender, but social pressure is pretty strong and leads to common outcomes that involve pressures based race, gender, and economic status among others. Someone from a wealthy family is more likely to have a certain outlook compared to someone who had food insecurity as a child.

I thought it wasn't gender specific? This is very sexist of you. wags finger

See how unhelpful that is to the conversation

yes, there is an incredibly amount of ignorance, and a lack of oversight about the entire thing.

and so many internet jackasses who think they are experts about it, constantly pushing endless misinformation about every aspect of the process. esp the armchair diagnosing.

'oh you had a bad day at work? you must have autism/adhd/depression/personality disorder'. or the fact anyone who was ever mean to you once in your life is a 'narcissist' or 'gas lighting' you.

the bias confirmation is out of hand. even in this very comment thread... soooo many people just banging on their bias confirmation drum and screaming 'no no no no, men are bad and should just go away and solve their own problems without bothering anyone at all ever!' as if that attitude isn't the biggest reason men, especially young men, feel so trapped about their lives.