NVIDIA is full of shit
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What exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? Do you think that says that the GPUs need their own PSUs? Do you think people with 50 series GPUs have 2 PSUs in their computers?
It’s not innovative, interesting, or improving performance, it’s a marketing scam. Games would be run better and more efficiently if you just lower the requirements.
DLSS isn't innovative? It's not improving performance? What on earth? Rendering a frame at a lower resolution and then using AI to upscale it to look the same or better than rendering it at full resolution isn't innovative?! Getting an extra 30fps vs native resolution isn't improving performance?! How isn't it?
You can't just "lower the requirements" lol. What you're suggesting is make the game worse so people with worse hardware can play at max settings lol. That is absolutely absurd.
Let me ask you this - do you think that every new game should still be being made for the PS2? PS3? Why or why not?
Like I said...you don't know what DLSS is, or how it works. It's not using "AI", that's just marketing bullshit. Apparently it works on some people
You can find tons of info on this (why I told you to search it up), but it uses rendering tables, inference sorting, and pattern recognition to quickly render scenes with other tricks that video formats have used for ages to render images at a higher resolution cheaply from the point of view of the GPU. You render a scene a dozen times once, then it regurgitates those renders from memory again if they are shown before ejected from cache on the card. It doesn't upsample, it does intelligently render anything new, and there is no additive anything. It seems you think it's magic, but it's just fast sorting memory tricks.
Why you think it makes games better is subjective, but it solely works to run games with the same details at a higher resolution. It doesn't improve rendered scenes whatsoever. It's literally the same thing as lowering your resolution and increasing texture compression (same affect on cached rendered scenes), since you bring it up. The effect on the user being a higher FPS at a higher resolution which you could achieve by just lowering your resolution. It absolutely does not make a game playable while otherwise unplayable by adding details and texture definition, as you seem to be claiming.
Go read up.
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No, I don’t remember that. What are you talking about?
Why would Nvidia make DLSS work on other brands hardware? It’s hardware dependant btw - it needs their cuda cores.
@FreedomAdvocate ... this question is totally unimportant for the fact that their current behaivior is not very consumer friendly or harder expressed anti consumer.
Second cuda is not hardware dependend
https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA/tree/master | https://www.xda-developers.com/nvidia-cuda-amd-zluda/ "Imagine a world where noone needed a brand specific addition to have modern features" ... oh those ideas exist since centuries ( DX / OpenGL / Vulkan .... ) ... now ask yourself why nvidia always tries to operate outside of those api's ?
....
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Like I said...you don't know what DLSS is, or how it works. It's not using "AI", that's just marketing bullshit. Apparently it works on some people
You can find tons of info on this (why I told you to search it up), but it uses rendering tables, inference sorting, and pattern recognition to quickly render scenes with other tricks that video formats have used for ages to render images at a higher resolution cheaply from the point of view of the GPU. You render a scene a dozen times once, then it regurgitates those renders from memory again if they are shown before ejected from cache on the card. It doesn't upsample, it does intelligently render anything new, and there is no additive anything. It seems you think it's magic, but it's just fast sorting memory tricks.
Why you think it makes games better is subjective, but it solely works to run games with the same details at a higher resolution. It doesn't improve rendered scenes whatsoever. It's literally the same thing as lowering your resolution and increasing texture compression (same affect on cached rendered scenes), since you bring it up. The effect on the user being a higher FPS at a higher resolution which you could achieve by just lowering your resolution. It absolutely does not make a game playable while otherwise unplayable by adding details and texture definition, as you seem to be claiming.
Go read up.
I 100% know what DLSS is, though by the sounds of it you don't. It is "AI" as much as any other thing is "AI". It uses models to "learn" what it needs to reconstruct and how to reconstruct it.
What do you think DLSS is?
You render a scene a dozen times once, then it regurgitates those renders from memory again if they are shown before ejected from cache on the card. It doesn’t upsample, it does intelligently render anything new, and there is no additive anything. It seems you think it’s magic, but it’s just fast sorting memory tricks.
This is blatantly and monumentally wrong lol. You think it's literally rendering a dozen frames and then just picking the best one to show you out of them? Wow. Just wow lol.
It absolutely does not make a game playable while otherwise unplayable by adding details and texture definition, as you seem to be claiming.
That's not what I claimed though. Where did I claim that?
What it does is allow you to run a game at higher settings than you could usually at a given framerate, with little to no loss of image quality. Where you could previously only run a game at 20fps at 1080p Ultra settings, you can now run it at 30fps at "1080p" Ultra, whereas to hit 30fps otherwise you might have to drop everything to Low settings.
Go read up.
Ditto.
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@FreedomAdvocate ... this question is totally unimportant for the fact that their current behaivior is not very consumer friendly or harder expressed anti consumer.
Second cuda is not hardware dependend
https://github.com/vosen/ZLUDA/tree/master | https://www.xda-developers.com/nvidia-cuda-amd-zluda/ "Imagine a world where noone needed a brand specific addition to have modern features" ... oh those ideas exist since centuries ( DX / OpenGL / Vulkan .... ) ... now ask yourself why nvidia always tries to operate outside of those api's ?
....
Second cuda is not hardware dependend
That's essentially an emulation layer. Nvidia make DLSS specifically for their GPUs, which have CUDA cores on them. It's the reason why DLSS doesn't work on their pre-CUDA core hardware.
Could they make DLSS work on AMDs hardware? Sure, they could - but it would not be DLSS as we know it, and again - why would they? They are allowed to make stuff exclusively for their hardware.
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@FreedomAdvocate https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/ati-cheating-on-benchmarks.877565/
read about that when they got grilled in the early 2000s
And how much nvidia influences media ->
Nvidia significantly influences early tests of the GeForce RTX 5060
Early tests of the GeForce RTX 5060 have almost no informative value. Nvidia specifies the game selection, settings and comparison models.
heise online (www.heise.de)
But nvidia got dragged across the coals for using frame-gen in their performance benchmarks too. Did you miss that?
Also ATI wasn't owned by AMD then.....AMD aquired ATI in 2006. Your link is from 2001.
Also no one should be listening to official GPU manufacturer benchmark results. No one. Review companies do their own benchmarking, and you do know that you can turn off DLSS and DLSS Frame-Gen, don't you? I haven't seen any reviewers only compare DLSS+Frame-Gen on an nvidia card to native-with-no-frame-gen on AMD cards. You must have, so can you link to any?
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I went from a 2080 Super to the RX 9070 XT and it flies.
You went from a 7 year old GPU to a brand new top of the line one, what did you expect? That's not a fair comparison lol. Got nothing to do with FSR4 vs DLSS4.
what did you expect?
I expected as much.
The thing to which I was concurring was simply that they said the 9070 was excellent.
nothing to do with FSR4 vs DLSS4
The 2080 Super supports DLSS.
️I'm just posting an anecdote, bro. Chill.
Also the 2080 Super was released in 2019, not 2018.
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I 100% know what DLSS is, though by the sounds of it you don't. It is "AI" as much as any other thing is "AI". It uses models to "learn" what it needs to reconstruct and how to reconstruct it.
What do you think DLSS is?
You render a scene a dozen times once, then it regurgitates those renders from memory again if they are shown before ejected from cache on the card. It doesn’t upsample, it does intelligently render anything new, and there is no additive anything. It seems you think it’s magic, but it’s just fast sorting memory tricks.
This is blatantly and monumentally wrong lol. You think it's literally rendering a dozen frames and then just picking the best one to show you out of them? Wow. Just wow lol.
It absolutely does not make a game playable while otherwise unplayable by adding details and texture definition, as you seem to be claiming.
That's not what I claimed though. Where did I claim that?
What it does is allow you to run a game at higher settings than you could usually at a given framerate, with little to no loss of image quality. Where you could previously only run a game at 20fps at 1080p Ultra settings, you can now run it at 30fps at "1080p" Ultra, whereas to hit 30fps otherwise you might have to drop everything to Low settings.
Go read up.
Ditto.
I 100% know what DLSS is, though by the sounds of it you don't. It is "AI" as much as any other thing is "AI". It uses models to "learn" what it needs to reconstruct and how to reconstruct it.
No, you don't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Learning_Super_Sampling
This is blatantly and monumentally wrong lol. You think it's literally rendering a dozen frames and then just picking the best one to show you out of them? Wow. Just wow lol.
Literally in the docs: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/main/doc/DLSS_Programming_Guide_Release.pdf
What it does is allow you to run a game at higher settings than you could usually at a given framerate, with little to no loss of image quality. Where you could previously only run a game at 20fps at 1080p Ultra settings, you can now run it at 30fps at "1080p" Ultra, whereas to hit 30fps otherwise you might have to drop everything to Low settings.
No it doesn't. It allows you to run a game at a higher resolution for no reason at all, instead of dropping to a lower resolution that your card can handle natively. That's it.
Keep claiming otherwise, and you're just literally denying reality and the Nvidia link to the docs right in front of you.
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But nvidia got dragged across the coals for using frame-gen in their performance benchmarks too. Did you miss that?
Also ATI wasn't owned by AMD then.....AMD aquired ATI in 2006. Your link is from 2001.
Also no one should be listening to official GPU manufacturer benchmark results. No one. Review companies do their own benchmarking, and you do know that you can turn off DLSS and DLSS Frame-Gen, don't you? I haven't seen any reviewers only compare DLSS+Frame-Gen on an nvidia card to native-with-no-frame-gen on AMD cards. You must have, so can you link to any?
@FreedomAdvocate so you didn't read the heise link which showed you that pre release tests had strict rules on how to test including framegen settings ...
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Second cuda is not hardware dependend
That's essentially an emulation layer. Nvidia make DLSS specifically for their GPUs, which have CUDA cores on them. It's the reason why DLSS doesn't work on their pre-CUDA core hardware.
Could they make DLSS work on AMDs hardware? Sure, they could - but it would not be DLSS as we know it, and again - why would they? They are allowed to make stuff exclusively for their hardware.
@FreedomAdvocate zuda is an reimplementation of an api not a emulation.
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I 100% know what DLSS is, though by the sounds of it you don't. It is "AI" as much as any other thing is "AI". It uses models to "learn" what it needs to reconstruct and how to reconstruct it.
No, you don't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Learning_Super_Sampling
This is blatantly and monumentally wrong lol. You think it's literally rendering a dozen frames and then just picking the best one to show you out of them? Wow. Just wow lol.
Literally in the docs: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/main/doc/DLSS_Programming_Guide_Release.pdf
What it does is allow you to run a game at higher settings than you could usually at a given framerate, with little to no loss of image quality. Where you could previously only run a game at 20fps at 1080p Ultra settings, you can now run it at 30fps at "1080p" Ultra, whereas to hit 30fps otherwise you might have to drop everything to Low settings.
No it doesn't. It allows you to run a game at a higher resolution for no reason at all, instead of dropping to a lower resolution that your card can handle natively. That's it.
Keep claiming otherwise, and you're just literally denying reality and the Nvidia link to the docs right in front of you.
Linking to an 81 page document isn’t helpful. What specifically in there are you referring to?
No it doesn’t. It allows you to run a game at a higher resolution for no reason at all
Other than the reasons like I said - running it at higher settings while maintaining a playable framerate. The point is you don’t have to lower settings as much with DLSS.
You fundamentally don’t understand what it is and what it allows you to do.
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@FreedomAdvocate so you didn't read the heise link which showed you that pre release tests had strict rules on how to test including framegen settings ...
Nvidia can say what they want, but reviewers didn’t follow those.
Sounds like you need to find better GPU review sites.
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@FreedomAdvocate zuda is an reimplementation of an api not a emulation.
I said it’s essentially emulation, which it is. Its like WINE, which is also essentially emulation but isn’t emulation.
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Linking to an 81 page document isn’t helpful. What specifically in there are you referring to?
No it doesn’t. It allows you to run a game at a higher resolution for no reason at all
Other than the reasons like I said - running it at higher settings while maintaining a playable framerate. The point is you don’t have to lower settings as much with DLSS.
You fundamentally don’t understand what it is and what it allows you to do.
You didn't read up on it huh?
Hilarious.
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I said it’s essentially emulation, which it is. Its like WINE, which is also essentially emulation but isn’t emulation.
@FreedomAdvocate there is a reason why WINE = Wine is not (a) Emulator is used. So don't call a api reimplementation a emulation specially since other api reimplementation have shown to be better than the original implementation from the hardware provider ( example dxvk on amd > the original amd dx implementation ) . But this gets us far from the original topics , my point was if nvidia wanted to have real competition they would have included all those new fance features into official api's like for example DX or Vulkan or any other.
They didn't ... and while not directly against the consumer it is against the consumer end.
So i have brought up another point why i call nvidia anti consumer ... neither you like it or not. -
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You don't need NVENC, the AMD and Intel versions are very good. If you care about maximum quality you would software encode for the best compression
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Since when did gfx cards need to cost more than a used car?
We are being scammed by nvidia. They are selling stuff that 20 years ago, the equivalent would have been some massive research prototype. And there would be, like, 2 of them in an nvidia bunker somewhere powering deep thought whilst it calculated the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.
3k for a gfx card. Man my whole pc cost 500 quid and it runs all my games and pcvr just fine.
Could it run better? Sure
Does it need to? Not for 3 grand...
Fuck me!.....
When advanced nodes stopped giving you Moore transistors per $
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I plan on getting at least a 4060 and I'm sitting on that for years. I'm on a 2060 right now.
My 2060 alone can run at least 85% of all games in my entire libraries across platforms. But I want at least 95% or 100%
Why not just get a 9060 xt and get that to 99%?(everything but ray tracing black myth wukong)
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Then why does Nvidia have so much more money?
Because of vendor lock in
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Like I said...you don't know what DLSS is, or how it works. It's not using "AI", that's just marketing bullshit. Apparently it works on some people
You can find tons of info on this (why I told you to search it up), but it uses rendering tables, inference sorting, and pattern recognition to quickly render scenes with other tricks that video formats have used for ages to render images at a higher resolution cheaply from the point of view of the GPU. You render a scene a dozen times once, then it regurgitates those renders from memory again if they are shown before ejected from cache on the card. It doesn't upsample, it does intelligently render anything new, and there is no additive anything. It seems you think it's magic, but it's just fast sorting memory tricks.
Why you think it makes games better is subjective, but it solely works to run games with the same details at a higher resolution. It doesn't improve rendered scenes whatsoever. It's literally the same thing as lowering your resolution and increasing texture compression (same affect on cached rendered scenes), since you bring it up. The effect on the user being a higher FPS at a higher resolution which you could achieve by just lowering your resolution. It absolutely does not make a game playable while otherwise unplayable by adding details and texture definition, as you seem to be claiming.
Go read up.
It actually doesn't do what you said anymore, not since an update in like 2020 or something. It's an AI model now
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He’s talking about DLSS upscaling - not DLSS Frame Generation - which doesn’t add latency.
It does add latency, you need 1-2ms to upscale the frame. However, if you are using a lower render resolution (instead of going up in resolution while rendering internally the same) then the latency will be lower because you have a higher frame rate
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