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Steam payment headaches grow as PayPal is no longer usable for much of the world: Valve hopes to bring it back in the future, 'but the timeline is uncertain'

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  • The short is that the acquiring bank of PayPal has banned transactions to Steam in all non-Western currencies (exception being Japanese Yen).

    TIL Mexico isn't in the west

  • or just use Wero which they are gonna use anyway

    Will they? That would be awesome but I haven't found any information on that.

  • Not in the slightest (cost me 0), and I do.

    I work at an accounting firm and part of my job is advising on automation software and the like, automating credit cards is a hassle and often impossible. Sometimes when it is possible, only half the transactions are posted (just the payments and not the money received from other your bank account).

    If they don't cost you any more, then those are the once which are expensive on the stores you buy from. For one, there is additional bookkeeping to be done (deduct the costs from the payment when receiving the money) and the extra costs itself.

    Not the main selling point.

    For a lot of people on the internet, that small cashback is their reason they use it.,

    A normal bank card spends your real money. Disputing through a bank may take longer. Until the bank returns money to your account, that money is gone.

    A normal bank card is way harder to even get into a situation where you need to open a dispute and most credit card companies do not care about you getting scammed either btw because you authorised the transaction.

    my checking account earns diddly squat interest & risk of unauthorized debits is meaningful (eg, debit cards)

    Unauthorised debits are such a rare thing, nobody is going to accidentally wire money to you. Unless you are a business and it's a double payment.

    You are also explaining the reasons as to why I said that technical benefit of earning money on borrowed money is bullshit for the average Joe. Why are we discussing this if we agree it's bullshit?

    transferring between accounts (or selling less liquid assets) takes time

    Transfers between accounts are instant these days and payments on your normal bank accounts can be a lot larger than on most credit cards. Credit cards are limited to 1k, 2.5k or 5k for most private individuals since you generally need to make x amount more a month (after taxes) than the limit of the card. The maximum on basically every bank account of a private individual is 50k

    Constantly transferring between accounts for every single transaction is inconvenient. Leaving money in the checking account isn’t ideal due to low interest earnings & risk of unauthorized debits.

    Irrelevant issue, you still gotta do this with a credit card since you have to pay off the dang thing. Most things are also a consistent thing and a monthly thing. You also mean unauthorised credits, btw. Banks turn around debit and credit like it's their party.

    charge expenses to a credit card (at most 30% of its credit limit)
    So like 300 bucks a month for most people, or 1500 if you have an advanced amount.

    Always completely pay off a credit card by the payment due date. A credit card is a shitty account to carry a debt (any non-0 balance past the due date): only dumbasses do that.

    This happens way more than you think, remember most people are terrible with money. You see this even more in countries like the US, where people take out loans for everything.

    If it works like in the US, then as long as you make mortgage & all other bill payments on time, completely pay off credit cards by payment due dates, and keep credit utilization low (at most 30% of card’s credit limit), you should be fine.

    In a lot of scenarios, they look at what you can monthly spend, because your past experiences don't dictate your future. In NL and other countries it works something like this,, but it is a lot more complicated in practise.
    If you have a monthly income of 5k, you pay say 1k taxes from that, which means you have 4k left over. In NL, there is something saying that you can only spend say 75% of your net income on loans. In this example, that's 3k. If you have a car loan for 1k a month and a credit card of 1k and a phone where you pay 50 bucks for and a student loan where you pay 50 bucks for. Which means you can only spend 900 euro on your mortgage.
    In the US system you might be able to take a mortgage of 2k (just guessing/execrating) because you always paid off your phone, car and credit card loans nicely. Which means you would spend 3,1k a month on loans. Which is one way that a people get into financial trouble.

    Are mortgages not paid there in regular installments with due amounts like in the US?

    And this is why the US credit score is bullshit because yes we do, everywhere in the world.

    You don’t have an account (maybe savings) that earns better interest? You’re not saving for emergencies, retirement, or goals?

    Ofc we have savings for emergencies, most people do. Most of my emergency fund is located in a savings account, but still instantly accessible, which means it is at a low interest rate. I could lock the money for a year to get like 2.9% interest instead of the 1.2% I am getting or something (it's on a free account).

    It’s usually just slack time (until payment due date) to make a payment you would already make some other way.

    Only the first month, after that it doesn't really matter.

    If credit cards users pay higher prices than non-users, checking accounts are secure from erroneous/unauthorized transactions, and transfers are instant, then the use case for credit cards is less clear.

    If they don’t cost you any more, then those are the once which are expensive on the stores you buy from.

    That changes the trade-offs a bit.
    I missed the assumption that credit card users pay the same prices (& no extra fees) as everyone else: processing fees are typically paid by the vendor who includes it in prices everyone pays regardless of credit card.

    In the US, credit card users basically get short-term, interest-free loans subsidized by the hidden costs in processing fees everyone is paying.
    Since consumers in the US mostly can't avoid the hidden costs, they don't benefit as much by avoiding credit cards as consumers in other places where consumers can avoid those fees by not using credit cards.

    It doesn't help that those credit cards compensate (poorly) for deficiencies in our financial system as I'll explain.

    A normal bank card is way harder to even get into a situation where you need to open a dispute

    Maybe yours.
    Here, online payments only need some numbers on the debit card & your name & billing address.

    Unauthorised debits are such a rare thing

    All it takes here is debit card information or an (e-)check.
    A check openly shows your routing number & bank account number & states to pay from there.
    Low barriers to fraud.

    most credit card companies do not care about you getting scammed either btw because you authorised the transaction

    Different here: by law no one who disputes a charge within 60 days is obligated to pay it until the dispute is resolved (within 90 days).
    It's usually charged back immediately.
    Due to weak security, authorization is easier to dispute, and they won't simply assume it.

    Transfers between accounts are instant these days

    Maybe in more civilized parts of the world.
    In the US, transfers & payments between financial institutions usually take business days to settle.
    Real-time payment is still uncommon there.

    You also mean unauthorised credits

    I agree that makes more sense in accounting.
    It's often stated as I did with bank accounts & I gave up trying to figure that out.

    I could lock the money for a year to get like 2.9% interest instead of the 1.2%.

    My regular & emergency savings go in an account like this with 4.3 APY, and that's "instantly" (as fast as a checking account) accessible.
    The slow settlement times, security risks, and "free" credit cards may offer some insights into our haphazard financial landscape & stopgap "solutions".
    The stronger use case for credit cards here is a byproduct of this broken system.

  • Will they? That would be awesome but I haven't found any information on that.

    Who Steam? Yeah they will be using Wero since they are currently supporting iDeal and the like which are changing to become Wero.

  • If credit cards users pay higher prices than non-users, checking accounts are secure from erroneous/unauthorized transactions, and transfers are instant, then the use case for credit cards is less clear.

    If they don’t cost you any more, then those are the once which are expensive on the stores you buy from.

    That changes the trade-offs a bit.
    I missed the assumption that credit card users pay the same prices (& no extra fees) as everyone else: processing fees are typically paid by the vendor who includes it in prices everyone pays regardless of credit card.

    In the US, credit card users basically get short-term, interest-free loans subsidized by the hidden costs in processing fees everyone is paying.
    Since consumers in the US mostly can't avoid the hidden costs, they don't benefit as much by avoiding credit cards as consumers in other places where consumers can avoid those fees by not using credit cards.

    It doesn't help that those credit cards compensate (poorly) for deficiencies in our financial system as I'll explain.

    A normal bank card is way harder to even get into a situation where you need to open a dispute

    Maybe yours.
    Here, online payments only need some numbers on the debit card & your name & billing address.

    Unauthorised debits are such a rare thing

    All it takes here is debit card information or an (e-)check.
    A check openly shows your routing number & bank account number & states to pay from there.
    Low barriers to fraud.

    most credit card companies do not care about you getting scammed either btw because you authorised the transaction

    Different here: by law no one who disputes a charge within 60 days is obligated to pay it until the dispute is resolved (within 90 days).
    It's usually charged back immediately.
    Due to weak security, authorization is easier to dispute, and they won't simply assume it.

    Transfers between accounts are instant these days

    Maybe in more civilized parts of the world.
    In the US, transfers & payments between financial institutions usually take business days to settle.
    Real-time payment is still uncommon there.

    You also mean unauthorised credits

    I agree that makes more sense in accounting.
    It's often stated as I did with bank accounts & I gave up trying to figure that out.

    I could lock the money for a year to get like 2.9% interest instead of the 1.2%.

    My regular & emergency savings go in an account like this with 4.3 APY, and that's "instantly" (as fast as a checking account) accessible.
    The slow settlement times, security risks, and "free" credit cards may offer some insights into our haphazard financial landscape & stopgap "solutions".
    The stronger use case for credit cards here is a byproduct of this broken system.

    processing fees are typically paid by the vendor who includes it in prices everyone pays regardless of credit card.
    Depends a bit on the fees, most cc also do charge something to the user for paying in foreign currencies. Cc are more expensive on the vendor especially when using contactless payment.

    Different here: by law no one who disputes a charge within 60 days is obligated to pay it until the dispute is resolved (within 90 days). It’s usually charged back immediately. Due to weak security, authorization is easier to dispute, and they won’t simply assume it.
    Even in the US they don't do this in half the scenario's

    Yeah you are right, credit cards in the US are part of the consumerism system and are designed to get you people in as much debt as possible. Which is part of the reason why I am so against credit cards and keep complaining about the dang things. Companies in the US also force me to use a credit card (and to not have clear prices because you exclude the tax which is illegal when selling to the EU)

  • Every American store supports credit cards in the form of Mastercard and Visa. Dutch cards will also work the same. With the extra requirement of 2FA, but that's handled by pretty much every payment gateway, the merchant doesn't get involved in that.

    Most Dutch cards won't work on North American sites. Our cards have an IBAN listed which cannot be entered on American sites. Paying with just the numbers on the card is not possibile unless it is a credit card or smething like Revolut iirc, which is bascially using the unsecure cards the American way or the 2FA system you explained, but that's not most cards.

  • Ours is hourly for some reason, and it's only recently they started doing that.

    We need a lemmy instance for your country. sh.itdoesnt.work

  • Most Dutch cards won't work on North American sites. Our cards have an IBAN listed which cannot be entered on American sites. Paying with just the numbers on the card is not possibile unless it is a credit card or smething like Revolut iirc, which is bascially using the unsecure cards the American way or the 2FA system you explained, but that's not most cards.

    Dutch bank cards are now being replaced with Mastercard, unlike the old Maestro ones, they also have 16 digit numbers that can be used online.

  • Dutch bank cards are now being replaced with Mastercard, unlike the old Maestro ones, they also have 16 digit numbers that can be used online.

    Yeah they are, but they will not be able to pay online with just the code since they have the IBAN listed and not the 16 digit code.

    The new system is better anyway, why do we need to go back in time?

  • Yeah they are, but they will not be able to pay online with just the code since they have the IBAN listed and not the 16 digit code.

    The new system is better anyway, why do we need to go back in time?

    The new cards have 16 digit numbers. I feel you are not even reading what I'm writing. You can easily find more info online about the new Mastercard based debit cards online. I know both ABN and ASN support online payments with the Mastercard versions

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    They will say something like solar went from 600gw to 1000 thats a 66% increase this year and coal only increased 40% except coal is 3600gw to 6400. Hrmmmm, maybe these numbers are outdated? Based on this coal and gas are down: In Q1 2025, solar generation rose 48% compared to the same period in 2024. Solar power reached 254 TWh, making up 10% of total electricity. This was the largest increase among all clean energy sources. Coal-fired electricity dropped by 4%, falling to 1,421 TWh. Gas-fired power also went down by 4%, reaching 67 TWh https://carboncredits.com/china-sets-clean-energy-record-in-early-2025-with-951-tw/ are no where close to what is required to meet their climate goals Which ones in particular are you talking about? Trump signs executive order directing US withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement — again https://apnews.com/article/trump-paris-agreement-climate-change-788907bb89fe307a964be757313cdfb0 China vowed on Tuesday to continue participating in two cornerstone multinational arrangements -- the World Health Organization and Paris climate accord -- after newly sworn-in US President Donald Trump ordered withdrawals from them. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250121-china-says-committed-to-who-paris-climate-deal-after-us-pulls-out What's that saying? You hate it when the person you hate is doing good? I can't remember what it is I can't fault them for what they're doing at the moment, even if they are run by an evil dictatorship and do pollute the most I’m not sure how european defense spending is relevant It suggests there is money available in the bank to fund solar/wind/battery, but instead they are preparing for? something? what? who knows. France can make a fighter jet at home but not solar panels apparently. Prehaps they would be made in a country with environmental and labour laws if governments legislated properly to prevent companies outsourcing manufacturing. However this doesnt absolve china. China isnt being forced at Gunpoint to produce these goods with low labour regulation and low environmental regulation. You're right, it doesn't absolve china, and I avoid purchasing things from them wherever possible, my solar panels and EV were made in South Korea, my home battery was made in Germany, there are only a few things in my house made in China, most of them I got second hand but unfortunately there is no escaping the giant of manufacturing. With that said it's one thing for me to sit here and tut tut at China, but I realise I am not most people, the most clearest example is the extreme anti-ai, anti-billionaire bias on this platform, in real life most people don't give a fuck, they love Amazon/Microsoft/Google/Apple etc, they can't go a day without them. So I consider myself a realist, if you want people to buy your stuff then you will need to make the conditions possible for them to WANT to buy your stuff, not out of some moral lecture and Europe isn't doing that, if we look at energy prices: Can someone actually point out to me where this comes from? ... At the end of the day energy is a small % of EU household spending I was looking at corporate/business energy use: Major European companies are already moving to cut costs and retain their competitive edge. For example, Thyssenkrupp, Germany’s largest steelmaker, said on Monday it would slash 11,000 jobs in its steel division by 2030, in a major corporate reshuffle. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/High-Energy-Costs-Continue-to-Plague-European-Industry.html Prices have since fallen but are still high compared to other countries. A poll by Germany's DIHK Chambers of Industry and Commerce of around 3,300 companies showed that 37% were considering cutting production or moving abroad, up from 31% last year and 16% in 2022. For energy-intensive industrial firms some 45% of companies were mulling slashing output or relocation, the survey showed. "The trust of the German economy in energy policy is severely damaged," Achim Dercks, DIHK deputy chief executive said, adding that the government had not succeeded in providing companies with a perspective for reliable and affordable energy supply. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/more-german-companies-mull-relocation-due-high-energy-prices-survey-2024-08-01/ I've seen nothing to suggest energy prices in the EU are SO cheap that it's worth moving manufacturing TO Europe, and this is what annoys me the most. I've pointed this out before but they have an excellent report on the issues: https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/97e481fd-2dc3-412d-be4c-f152a8232961_en?filename=The+future+of+European+competitiveness+_+A+competitiveness+strategy+for+Europe.pdf Then they put out this Competitive Compass: https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-competitiveness/competitiveness-compass_en But tbh every week in the EU it seems like they are chasing after some other goal. This would be great, it would have been greater 10 years ago. Agreed
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