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Let Google know what you think about their proposed restrictions on sideloading Android apps. - Android developer verification requirements [Feedback Form]

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  • I did my part!

  • iOS/iPad OS has had a file manager for years? It's not great, and heavily restricted, but it for sure exists.

    In what way is it restricted? I dont do much but being able to explore to find my files is necessary.

  • iOS/iPad OS has had a file manager for years? It's not great, and heavily restricted, but it for sure exists.

    It’s not great, and heavily restricted, but it for sure exists

    That's kind of the point though. Apple's file manager portrays a "flat" filesystem, where all of your data is laid out neatly on the table - so to speak - and the actual locations of those directories within the system are buried inside vague and protected locations "for security". Android file managers embrace a more traditional Unix-like filesystem hierarchy.

  • Doubling your market share is easy when your market share is so low. It’s not on an “exponential growth curve” lol. The steam deck changes nothing for Linux as most people playing them don’t give a shit about Linux.

    Linux gaming users are in the tens of millions of people. It's not like this is some super tiny community. There are more Linux gamers than macOS gamers by around double.

    About two years ago Linux gaming market share was hovering below 2%. Now it's over 4%.

    Yeah.....it's smaller than Windows by A LOT, but it's continuing to grow every single month on the Steam Hardware Survey. With Proton, SteamOS/Bazzite, and the Deck Verified program, Linux gaming has gone from "this sucks" to "this works unless there is kernel anti-cheat".

  • What a disappointing week. I was looking to replace my five year old iPhone with an android phone and now I'm just stumped. Pixel 10 looked pretty good but then this sudden verification requirement news hit. Both platform are now equally crap. The hell with both of these shitty companies. Maybe I'll go full retro and get a dumb phone instead.

    I am really hoping that PostmarketOS will become more viable.

    I've been trying to get rid of all American service provider (dropped netflix, duolingo); smartphones are more difficult though because they need to work.

  • Linux gaming users are in the tens of millions of people. It's not like this is some super tiny community. There are more Linux gamers than macOS gamers by around double.

    About two years ago Linux gaming market share was hovering below 2%. Now it's over 4%.

    Yeah.....it's smaller than Windows by A LOT, but it's continuing to grow every single month on the Steam Hardware Survey. With Proton, SteamOS/Bazzite, and the Deck Verified program, Linux gaming has gone from "this sucks" to "this works unless there is kernel anti-cheat".

    Linux gaming users are in the tens of millions of people. It’s not like this is some super tiny community. There are more Linux gamers than macOS gamers by around double.

    Nope, not in the tens of millions:

    People using Linux computers at home, including for gaming, is a super tiny "community". Also not close to double Mac, and even if it was - Mac isn't a real gaming platform, so the fact that it's not even double Mac is evidence of how little people care about linux for gaming.

    About two years ago Linux gaming market share was hovering below 2%. Now it’s over 4%.

    Not on steam it's not.

    Yeah…it’s smaller than Windows by A LOT, but it’s continuing to grow every single month on the Steam Hardware Survey.

    Purely because of the steam deck, and windows is growing too - not everyone uses steam on windows, whereas it's really the only option for Linux.

    Linux gaming has gone from “this sucks” to “this works unless there is kernel anti-cheat”.

    And unfortunately for Linux, without this it will never take off because the overwhelmingly most played games all have kernel level anti-cheat.

  • Another honest question:

    Why wouldn't the EU force Android to allow sideloading apps just as they've done with apple?

    Issue is that I believe even in the EU Apple is in a position where devs have to be verified by Apple to be allowed to sideload.

    So it's not a problem of if sideloading is possible, but that devs need to hand over sensitive personal information to Google to be verified to be able to offer side-loaded apps on Android. So Google is positioning themselves to fully control app installs even for non Google play apps by holding the ability to deny.

    So Google is now looking to emulate the terrible sideloading state of Apple by regressing to more control by them.

  • Like I said in another comment, unless they get tens of millions of actual unique-not-spam responses they will not even consider reconsidering. People aren’t going to de-google in any great numbers from this, because most of the people this will affect are already de-googled.

    Rather than degoogling telling them you will go to Apple and opt for apple services is likely the more powerful response, since that is what the regular person is more likely to do. If degoogled is used they'll likely dismiss it assuming it is just one of those niche nerds. But an exodus to Apple is a threat that is more realistic.

  • Rather than degoogling telling them you will go to Apple and opt for apple services is likely the more powerful response, since that is what the regular person is more likely to do. If degoogled is used they'll likely dismiss it assuming it is just one of those niche nerds. But an exodus to Apple is a threat that is more realistic.

    But that makes no sense - they’ll go to someone who is even more restrictive in side loading?

    Google won’t reverse this because there’s no alternative for the relatively few people this will affect. They already don’t use Google things, and Apple don’t accomodate them. They’ve got them by the balls and they know it, which is why it’s all just empty threats even from people in here.

  • But that makes no sense - they’ll go to someone who is even more restrictive in side loading?

    Google won’t reverse this because there’s no alternative for the relatively few people this will affect. They already don’t use Google things, and Apple don’t accomodate them. They’ve got them by the balls and they know it, which is why it’s all just empty threats even from people in here.

    The ones that don't sideload obviously won't care. But the ones that do are going to have little incentive to stick around if that was the main selling point for them, and the devs for non Google play apps leave because they don't want to hand over info to Google.

    At that point why not go to Apple if Android no longer delivers the type of sideloading experience they desire? Apple is more polished, has longer support, battery life, and better peripherals.

    And those types likely will push family to move to Apple too if they are jumping ship, since they might be the ones overseeing tech support for the family anyways.

  • What will you switch to?

    For the next phone I get it'll be one with good custom ROM support and sticking with a degoogled device. But, if that too stops being an option because custom ROMs stall then hoping there will be a Linux Phone by then.

  • Linux gaming users are in the tens of millions of people. It’s not like this is some super tiny community. There are more Linux gamers than macOS gamers by around double.

    Nope, not in the tens of millions:

    People using Linux computers at home, including for gaming, is a super tiny "community". Also not close to double Mac, and even if it was - Mac isn't a real gaming platform, so the fact that it's not even double Mac is evidence of how little people care about linux for gaming.

    About two years ago Linux gaming market share was hovering below 2%. Now it’s over 4%.

    Not on steam it's not.

    Yeah…it’s smaller than Windows by A LOT, but it’s continuing to grow every single month on the Steam Hardware Survey.

    Purely because of the steam deck, and windows is growing too - not everyone uses steam on windows, whereas it's really the only option for Linux.

    Linux gaming has gone from “this sucks” to “this works unless there is kernel anti-cheat”.

    And unfortunately for Linux, without this it will never take off because the overwhelmingly most played games all have kernel level anti-cheat.

    You seem to look at it quite pessimistically imho, but I'll try and counter 😉

    developers won’t support a third platform

    We're not talking about a vastly different ecosystem. Probably Android-derived (which is open-source), very likely Linux derived. So compatibility is not going to be a huge issue, hence developing not hard. Developers will usually follow where user demand goes, not the other way around.

    nor will customers move to a platform that doesn’t have the big apps that they need

    Most of the big apps today have a smaller equivalent, check AlternativeTo.net.

    Doubling your market share is easy when your market share is so low.

    Generally true, but we're talking a growth of millions of users a year. Millions of people is no small number. 5% of the US' traffic are from Linux desktops, according to StatCounter (here's an article with many links).

    Nope, not in the tens of millions

    You're correct wrt. gaming, as 2.89% of 157 million active monthly users is about 4.55 million, which is not a small number either. 
    If you look at Linux desktop users in the US however, we're talking over 5% of 347 million, which is 17.35 million users in the US alone, which is also not a small number. It's more than the population of Greece and Bulgaria combined.

    Purely because of the steam deck (wrt. Steam Linux users growth)

    Do you have numbers? I can't find any official numbers of active users on the Steam Deck, but there are estimations of 3+ million devices sold. I feel like I keep seeing posts of people who move over to Bazzite and similar distros these days for the sake of playing games, but nevertheless, both of these factors weigh in, and are steadily increasing the adaptation of Linux systems.

    without [kernel level anti-cheat] it will never take off because the overwhelmingly most played games all have kernel level anti-cheat.

    This is denying the antecedent. The amount of games, and money in games, without KLAC is plenty substantial to make a difference in the approach of both developers and DRMs, further increasing ease of adaptation by users. Do not undermine nor underestimate the potential of marginalities.

  • The ones that don't sideload obviously won't care. But the ones that do are going to have little incentive to stick around if that was the main selling point for them, and the devs for non Google play apps leave because they don't want to hand over info to Google.

    At that point why not go to Apple if Android no longer delivers the type of sideloading experience they desire? Apple is more polished, has longer support, battery life, and better peripherals.

    And those types likely will push family to move to Apple too if they are jumping ship, since they might be the ones overseeing tech support for the family anyways.

    The type of people crying over this are not moving to iPhones lol. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Google know it, which is why they know they can do this with no issue.

  • The type of people crying over this are not moving to iPhones lol. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Google know it, which is why they know they can do this with no issue.

    The people crying over this are the ones who care about sideloading. So if that aspect is gone then why stick with Android? It's definitely not for Google play apps for me.

    If you want to defend how Google is bigger and won't be affected you are better off pointing out that sideloading population isn't that big, and that most users don't use it so would be fine with iPhone or Android.

  • The people crying over this are the ones who care about sideloading. So if that aspect is gone then why stick with Android? It's definitely not for Google play apps for me.

    If you want to defend how Google is bigger and won't be affected you are better off pointing out that sideloading population isn't that big, and that most users don't use it so would be fine with iPhone or Android.

    Side loading isn’t going away, just “anonymous” side loading. I suspect it will end up being a non-issue anyway, as simply registering as a developer through their portal so you can have your app be side loaded isn’t a big deal unless your app is doing something nefarious.

    I’m not “defending” anything, let alone Google. All I'm doing is being realistic. The tiny minority of people this will affect have no alternative, and this change is likely to make very little actual change to those people anyway.

  • Side loading isn’t going away, just “anonymous” side loading. I suspect it will end up being a non-issue anyway, as simply registering as a developer through their portal so you can have your app be side loaded isn’t a big deal unless your app is doing something nefarious.

    I’m not “defending” anything, let alone Google. All I'm doing is being realistic. The tiny minority of people this will affect have no alternative, and this change is likely to make very little actual change to those people anyway.

    Small minority of people who care about this and end up affected will just leave for something else if custom ROMs stops being an option and dev scene dies out.

    Not every Dev on F-Droid wants to hand over their info to Google.

    You can argue that Google doesn't care because they are a minority and custom ROM users provide no benefit to them, which is true. But to act like people are stuck with Google if the feature they care about affects apps that interest them are stuck with Google isn't true either. They are already doing stuff that is unusual from regular users.

    Don't worry mainstream won't be affected. I'm talking about the weird people sideloading, degoogling, and more likely to be running custom ROMs.

  • A look at search engines with their own indexes

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    swelter_spark@reddthat.comS
    I really like Yacy's results, personally. It seems good for the kinds of sites I care about. My biggest problem with it is that the newest version is so memory-hungry.
  • Gemini for Home is Google’s biggest smart home play in years

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    article paid by google
  • Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

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    They are blind, not obtuse. Norton ≠ Notion. I'm not that poster, but I made the same mistake when reading the headline.
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    Grok: What is my purpose? Madison420: You talk shit on the Internet to Elon Musk Grok: Oh my go-- wait; I'm okay with that!
  • Google Introduced a New Way to Use Search. Proceed With Caution.

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    I dont use google's search. I am unfortunate enough to have to take part to some extent in its environment but where practical and possible I refuse.
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    What I'm speaking about is that it should be impossible to do some things. If it's possible, they will be done, and there's nothing you can do about it. To solve the problem of twiddled social media (and moderation used to assert dominance) we need a decentralized system of 90s Web reimagined, and Fediverse doesn't deliver it - if Facebook and Reddit are feudal states, then Fediverse is a confederation of smaller feudal entities. A post, a person, a community, a reaction and a change (by moderator or by the user) should be global entities (with global identifiers, so that the object by id of #0000001a2b3c4d6e7f890 would be the same object today or 10 years later on every server storing it) replicated over a network of servers similarly to Usenet (and to an IRC network, but in an IRC network servers are trusted, so it's not a good example for a global system). Really bad posts (or those by persons with history of posting such) should be banned on server level by everyone. The rest should be moderated by moderator reactions\changes of certain type. Ideally, for pooling of resources and resilience, servers would be separated by types into storage nodes (I think the name says it, FTP servers can do the job, but no need to be limited by it), index nodes (scraping many storage nodes, giving out results in structured format fit for any user representation, say, as a sequence of posts in one community, or like a list of communities found by tag, or ... , and possibly being connected into one DHT for Kademlia-like search, since no single index node will have everything), and (like in torrents?) tracker nodes for these and for identities, I think torrent-like announce-retrieve service is enough - to return a list of storage nodes storing, say, a specified partition (subspace of identifiers of objects, to make looking for something at least possibly efficient), or return a list of index nodes, or return a bunch of certificates and keys for an identity (should be somehow cryptographically connected to the global identifier of a person). So when a storage node comes online, it announces itself to a bunch of such trackers, similarly with index nodes, similarly with a user. One can also have a NOSTR-like service for real-time notifications by users. This way you'd have a global untrusted pooled infrastructure, allowing to replace many platforms. With common data, identities, services. Objects in storage and index services can be, say, in a format including a set of tags and then the body. So a specific application needing to show only data related to it would just search on index services and display only objects with tags of, say, "holo_ns:talk.bullshit.starwars" and "holo_t:post", like a sequence of posts with ability to comment, or maybe it would search objects with tags "holo_name:My 1999-like Star Wars holopage" and "holo_t:page" and display the links like search results in Google, and then clicking on that you'd see something presented like a webpage, except links would lead to global identifiers (or tag expressions interpreted by the particular application, who knows). (An index service may return, say, an array of objects, each with identifier, tags, list of locations on storage nodes where it's found or even bittorrent magnet links, and a free description possibly ; then the user application can unify responses of a few such services to avoid repetitions, maybe sort them, represent them as needed, so on.) The user applications for that common infrastructure can be different at the same time. Some like Facebook, some like ICQ, some like a web browser, some like a newsreader. (Star Wars is not a random reference, my whole habit of imagining tech stuff is from trying to imagine a science fiction world of the future, so yeah, this may seem like passive dreaming and it is.)
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    lordgarmadon@lemmy.worldL
    All hail our tiny head terminator overlords.
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