Former GM Executive: BYD cars are good in terms of design, features, price, quality. If we let BYD into the U.S. market, it could end up destroying american manufacturers
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Yes, and so may BYD. I have no idea what are you arguing for.
I don't know what you're arguing for either. It sounds like we agree it is unsustainable.
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China doesn't have a national minimum wage, but minimum wage is delegated to the local level there and definitely exists in every single province. Just echoing what the other user said, literally everything you said here is easily disprovable.
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/minimum-wages-China/Beijing has the highest hourly minimum wage (RMB 26.4/US$3.7 per hour)
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Ford stopped making cars because they can't compete with the current crop of cars coming from Japan/Korea and Europe regardless of how much money they throw at the problem. They have their niche with trucks and SUVs and are happy to stay there. China builds cars using massive government subsidies, slave labor, and local resources that aren't available to anyone else in the world which is why I think it's right to fight against them because it's impossible to compete against them just like a small local grocery store can't compete against Walmart.
You’d have an argument if legacy manufacturers were trying. We could talk about support if they were willing. They don’t want it. They’ve already given up
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They phased out their subsidies in 2022
They still have a trade in program to get ICE vehicles off the road.
A lot of these subsidies (both in the US and China) are implicit. Chinese state rail networks operate at cost, allowing cheap transportation of materials and labor. American borrowing is heavily subsidized through the Fed Credit Window, which keeps rates in the low single digits while corporate bonds and consumer loans can be 2x-30x as high. Both countries cut corners on environmental enforcement and subsidize waste management. Both countries subsidize education and incentive R&D through their university systems.
The real benefit BYD enjoys - even above its Chinese peers - is vertical integration. They own everything from mining interests to technology patents to dealerships. This is a deliberate consequence of Chinese trade policy, which requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital. Consequently, Berkshire Hathaway - a large early investor in BYD - cannot dictate Chinese vehicle manufacturing policy from a private office in Omaha. Chinese locals benefit from the innovation, the domestic capital, the experienced labor force (which can migrate to local competitors), and the increased economic activity it produces.
China is insourcing it's wealth aggregation, which has a cyclical compound benefit over time.
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They actually have a problem with workers or the lack of them and they have invested heavily in robotics. They aren’t the China of the 70s and 90s. It’s really something that we need to face up to if we want to compete but our political class isn’t really ready for that sort of reality. Years behind because of smugness.
We can't compete with a country that pays their workers $1/hr without doing the same.
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We have the technologies for direct democracy
Wish I could upvote twice. As far as I'm aware there's about 5 American politicians who actually care about more than just lining their pockets.
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As an European living in Asia and can't help but cringe at American cars. They're so far behind. And it's the car country. Japan has better cars and better rail. Embarassing.
Agreed. I'm American and think American manufacturers make the ugliest and worst cars. Outside of the Corvette, which remains the best spots car in it's price range.
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How does it compare to tesla in terms of privacy, ownership (DRM) and stuff?
Privacy in terms of a large, rolling chinese surveillance machine covered in cameras, mics and sensors, full of chips and sporting bluetooth, cellular and wifi? I'm sure it's fine.
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Privacy in terms of a large, rolling chinese surveillance machine covered in cameras, mics and sensors, full of chips and sporting bluetooth, cellular and wifi? I'm sure it's fine.
USA is already at nightmare level, and the big difference is the USA will use it against you where China can't really reach you
Anyways, I would appreciate any proof or comparison between the two
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I don't know what you're arguing for either. It sounds like we agree it is unsustainable.
You just have a weird way of agreeing.
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Hold on, in advanced education here in my area of the states, almost half the population of students in classes I see are of Chinese or Indian backgrounds and most are here on foreign visas.
If the education is so shit, why are there so many foreign students studying here and paying insane amounts of money to do so.
'Chinese or Indian backgrounds' so not Chinese.
China leads in 95% of STEM and they're only getting better and widening the gap.
The US has a handful of good Ivy league institutions (invariably using foreign professors and braindrain), the general level is mediocre at best. -
What did i write that is sinophobic?
You are lying, Chinese have vastly more workers rights.
The US probably has the least in the so-called developped countries.
Lying just to be negative on a positive article about China is typically Sinophobic.
Why don't you write 'but at what cost?'. You could become the caricature.
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You are lying, Chinese have vastly more workers rights.
The US probably has the least in the so-called developped countries.
Lying just to be negative on a positive article about China is typically Sinophobic.
Why don't you write 'but at what cost?'. You could become the caricature.Thats a lot of writing to not answer the question. What did i write that is sinophobic? What am i lying about? Quote it in the reply or go back to 4chan for trolling
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Not an American, but it's worth saying that despite their labour market's galling shortfalls, they don't have a culture of 12 hour days for 6 days per week. Many work much less, and those who do pull those kinds of hours are typically tradesmen/women who make pretty good bank. Those types of jobs are being systematically eliminated by corporations, but I digress.
"12 hour days for 6 days per week. "
So you believe this baseless garbage statement that Chinese generally have these work hours? Right.
If you compare it to nonsense then the US is less bad, but those are not the facts.
retirement age 63 years old for men, 58 years for women, US: 67/66
paid holidays, not even a right, they maybe get 6, China:13
US: no paid sick days, China: they get 100% to 60%
The US is a joke. -
Tbf notoriously China subsidizes BYD to net loss so its not exactly capitalism.
It's state sponsored capitalism and China has pumped a ton of money into BYD to get them to where they are.
I can see them giving larger tax breaks to companies in the US, but current administration is all in on tariffs as the way to increase our domestic production. It doesn't make ours any better or cheaper, just everything else more expensive.
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Thats a lot of writing to not answer the question. What did i write that is sinophobic? What am i lying about? Quote it in the reply or go back to 4chan for trolling
you give a source for your Chinese working hours.
I gave you an answer.
You're the sinophobic troll. And you can't tell me shit.
You go back to whatever hole you crawled out of. -
Tbf notoriously China subsidizes BYD to net loss so its not exactly capitalism.
What do you think Walmart does when they enter a new market, the eat losses till the local competition folds and they are the only option left
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It's state sponsored capitalism and China has pumped a ton of money into BYD to get them to where they are.
I can see them giving larger tax breaks to companies in the US, but current administration is all in on tariffs as the way to increase our domestic production. It doesn't make ours any better or cheaper, just everything else more expensive.
It doesn't make ours any better or cheaper, just everything else more expensive.
it also makes your domestic products more expensive because cars etc still have to source components and industrial machines from internationally so it’s tariffs all the way down
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My old boss was a huge man who went around in a little yellow convertible. We called him Noddy.
May I suggest calling him Fireman Sam?
His old one was very similar, but a darker colour so we called him The Fall Guy.
Or rather the few of us in the office old enough to remember that show did.
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A lot of these subsidies (both in the US and China) are implicit. Chinese state rail networks operate at cost, allowing cheap transportation of materials and labor. American borrowing is heavily subsidized through the Fed Credit Window, which keeps rates in the low single digits while corporate bonds and consumer loans can be 2x-30x as high. Both countries cut corners on environmental enforcement and subsidize waste management. Both countries subsidize education and incentive R&D through their university systems.
The real benefit BYD enjoys - even above its Chinese peers - is vertical integration. They own everything from mining interests to technology patents to dealerships. This is a deliberate consequence of Chinese trade policy, which requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital. Consequently, Berkshire Hathaway - a large early investor in BYD - cannot dictate Chinese vehicle manufacturing policy from a private office in Omaha. Chinese locals benefit from the innovation, the domestic capital, the experienced labor force (which can migrate to local competitors), and the increased economic activity it produces.
China is insourcing it's wealth aggregation, which has a cyclical compound benefit over time.
requires foreign investors to partner with Chinese nationals in order to own and operate capital
this also means that chinese companies are notorious for stealing IP. it’s easy to be cheap when you don’t do the R&D - you just fast track to producing the product
