Skip to content

PNG has been updated for the first time in 22 years — new spec supports HDR and animation

Technology
88 58 0
  • But is it backwards compatible with an old version that can't be updated?

    I'll tell you if I can find some new files for testing.

    Even JPEG isn't always back compatible either. I loaded an image into my software which uses some ancient library internally, and it swapped the blue and red channels.

  • This post did not contain any content.

    Now if anyone don't mind explaining, PNG vs JXL?

  • This post did not contain any content.

    Jxl train choo choo

  • It's not irrelevant, it's that you don't actually know if it's true or not, so it's not a valuable contribution.

    If you started your comment by saying "This is something I completely made up and may or may not be correct" and then posted the same thing, you should expect the same result.

    I did check some of the references.

    What I dont understand is why you would perceive this content as more trustworthy if I didn't say it's AI.

    Nobody should trust blindly some anonymous comment on a forum. I have to check what the AI blurbs out but you can just gobble the comment of some stranger without exercising yourself some critical thinking?

    As long as I'm transparent on the source and especially since I did check some of it to be sure it's not some kind of hallucination...

    There shouldn't be any difference of trust between some random comment on a social network and what some AI model thinks on a subject.

    Also it's not like this is some important topic with societal implications. It's just a technical question that I had (and still doesn't) that doesn't mandate researching. None of my work depends on that lib. So before my comment there was no information on compatibility. Now there is but you have to look at it critically and decide if you want to verify or trust it.

    That's why I regret this kind of stubborn downvoting where people just assume the worse instead of checking the actual data.

    Sometime I really wonder if I'm the only one supposed to check my data? Aren't everybody here capable of verifying the AI output if they think it's worth the time and effort?

    Basically, downvoting here is choosing "no information" rather than "information I have to verify because it's AI generated".

    Edit: Also I could have just summarized the AI output myself and not mention AI. What then? Would you have checked the accuracy of that data? Critical thinking is not something you use "sometimes" or just "on some comments".

  • Likely, you'll see the first frame only on older software. Encoding animation in a dedicated animation chunk and using the base spec for the first keyframe sounds like the sane thing to do, so they likely did that.

    I'm not going to look into it now, because I would then have to implement it. 😄

    Haha dont worry, just curious. Your answer is good!

  • I did check some of the references.

    What I dont understand is why you would perceive this content as more trustworthy if I didn't say it's AI.

    Nobody should trust blindly some anonymous comment on a forum. I have to check what the AI blurbs out but you can just gobble the comment of some stranger without exercising yourself some critical thinking?

    As long as I'm transparent on the source and especially since I did check some of it to be sure it's not some kind of hallucination...

    There shouldn't be any difference of trust between some random comment on a social network and what some AI model thinks on a subject.

    Also it's not like this is some important topic with societal implications. It's just a technical question that I had (and still doesn't) that doesn't mandate researching. None of my work depends on that lib. So before my comment there was no information on compatibility. Now there is but you have to look at it critically and decide if you want to verify or trust it.

    That's why I regret this kind of stubborn downvoting where people just assume the worse instead of checking the actual data.

    Sometime I really wonder if I'm the only one supposed to check my data? Aren't everybody here capable of verifying the AI output if they think it's worth the time and effort?

    Basically, downvoting here is choosing "no information" rather than "information I have to verify because it's AI generated".

    Edit: Also I could have just summarized the AI output myself and not mention AI. What then? Would you have checked the accuracy of that data? Critical thinking is not something you use "sometimes" or just "on some comments".

    You realize that if we wanted to see an AI LLM response, we'd ask an AI LLM ourselves.
    What you're doing is akin to :

    Hey guys, I've asked google if the new png is backward compatible, and here are the first links it gave me, hope this helps : [list 200 links]

  • Now if anyone don't mind explaining, PNG vs JXL?

    JXL is badly supported but it does offer lossless encoding in a more flexible and much more efficient way than png does

    Basically jxl could theoretically replace png, jpg, and also exr.

  • I don't know. If the poster couldn't be bothered to fact-check, why would I? It is just safer to assume that it can be misinformation.

    If you prefer to know nothing about PNG compatibility rather than something that might be true about PNG. That's fine but definitely not my approach.

    Also, as I said to another commenter. Critical thinking is not some tool you decide to use on some comments and not others. An AI answer on some topics is actually more likely to be correct than an answer by a human being. And it's not some stuff I was told by an AI guru it's what researchers are evaluating in many universities. Ask an human to complete various tasks and then ask the AI model and compare scientifically the data. And it turns out there is task where the AI outperforms the human pretty much all the time.

    YET on this particular task the assumption is that it's bullshit and it's just downvoted. Now I would have posted the same data myself and for some reason I would not see a single downvote. The same data represented differently completely change the likelihood of it being accurate. Even though at the end of the day you shouldn't trust blindly neither a comment from an human or an AI output.

    Honestly, I'm saddened to see people already rejecting completely the technology instead of trying to understand what it's good at and what it's bad at and most importantly experiencing it themselves.

    I wanted to know what was generative AI worth so I read about it and tried it locally with open source software. Now I know how to spot images that are AI generated, I know what's difficult for this tech and what is not. I think that's a much healthier attitude than blindly rejecting any and all AI outputs.

  • Ooh, that was the coaster company, I remember them.

  • That depends. Something like HDR should be able to fall back to non-HDR since it largely just adds data, so if the format specifies that extra information is ignored, there's a chance it works fine.

    I'm not sure you can turn an hdr image into a regular one just by snipping it down to 8 bits per channel and discarding the rest.

    I mean it would work but I'm not certain you'll get the best results.

  • JXL is badly supported but it does offer lossless encoding in a more flexible and much more efficient way than png does

    Basically jxl could theoretically replace png, jpg, and also exr.

    Interestingly, I downloaded GNOME's pride month wallpaper to see what it looked like, and the files were JXL. Never seen them in the wild before that

  • I'm not sure you can turn an hdr image into a regular one just by snipping it down to 8 bits per channel and discarding the rest.

    I mean it would work but I'm not certain you'll get the best results.

    it would work

    And that's probably enough. I don't know enough about HDR to know if it would look anything like the artist imagined, but as long as it's close enough, it's fine if it's not optimal. Having things completely break is far less than ideal.

  • it would work

    And that's probably enough. I don't know enough about HDR to know if it would look anything like the artist imagined, but as long as it's close enough, it's fine if it's not optimal. Having things completely break is far less than ideal.

    You'd probably get some colours that end up being quite off target. But you'll get an image to display. So in the end it depends on how much "not optimal" you're ready to accept.

  • You realize that if we wanted to see an AI LLM response, we'd ask an AI LLM ourselves.
    What you're doing is akin to :

    Hey guys, I've asked google if the new png is backward compatible, and here are the first links it gave me, hope this helps : [list 200 links]

    I understand that. It's the downvoting of the clearly marked as AI LLM response. Is it detrimental to the conversation here to have that? Is it better to share nothing rather than this LLM output?

    Was this thread better without it?

    Is complete ignorance of the PNG compatibility preferable to reading this AI output and pondering how true is it?

    [list 200 links]

    Now I think this conversation is getting just rude for no reason.
    I think the AI output was definitely not the "I'm lucky" result of a Google search and the fact that you choose that metaphor is in bad faith.

  • I understand that. It's the downvoting of the clearly marked as AI LLM response. Is it detrimental to the conversation here to have that? Is it better to share nothing rather than this LLM output?

    Was this thread better without it?

    Is complete ignorance of the PNG compatibility preferable to reading this AI output and pondering how true is it?

    [list 200 links]

    Now I think this conversation is getting just rude for no reason.
    I think the AI output was definitely not the "I'm lucky" result of a Google search and the fact that you choose that metaphor is in bad faith.

    Was this thread better without it?

    Yes.

    I, and I assume most people, go into the comments on Lemmy to interact with other people. If I wanted to fucking chit-chat with an LLM (why you'd want to do that, I can't fathom), I'd go do that. We all have access to LLMs if we wish to have bullshit with a veneer of eloquency spouted at us.

  • You'd probably get some colours that end up being quite off target. But you'll get an image to display. So in the end it depends on how much "not optimal" you're ready to accept.

    Right, and it depends on what "quite off target" means. Are we talking about greens becoming purples? Or dark greens becoming bright greens? If the image is still mostly recognizable, just with poor saturation or contrast or whatever, I think it's acceptable for older software.

  • I did check some of the references.

    What I dont understand is why you would perceive this content as more trustworthy if I didn't say it's AI.

    Nobody should trust blindly some anonymous comment on a forum. I have to check what the AI blurbs out but you can just gobble the comment of some stranger without exercising yourself some critical thinking?

    As long as I'm transparent on the source and especially since I did check some of it to be sure it's not some kind of hallucination...

    There shouldn't be any difference of trust between some random comment on a social network and what some AI model thinks on a subject.

    Also it's not like this is some important topic with societal implications. It's just a technical question that I had (and still doesn't) that doesn't mandate researching. None of my work depends on that lib. So before my comment there was no information on compatibility. Now there is but you have to look at it critically and decide if you want to verify or trust it.

    That's why I regret this kind of stubborn downvoting where people just assume the worse instead of checking the actual data.

    Sometime I really wonder if I'm the only one supposed to check my data? Aren't everybody here capable of verifying the AI output if they think it's worth the time and effort?

    Basically, downvoting here is choosing "no information" rather than "information I have to verify because it's AI generated".

    Edit: Also I could have just summarized the AI output myself and not mention AI. What then? Would you have checked the accuracy of that data? Critical thinking is not something you use "sometimes" or just "on some comments".

    Are you really asking why advertising that "the following comment may be hallucinated" nets you more downvotes than just omitting that fact?

    You're literally telling people "hey, this is a low effort comment" and acting flabbergasted that it gets you downvotes.

  • Goodbye gif hello png?

    Is it pronounced png or png?

  • Is it pronounced png or png?

    PNG, like "PNG"

  • I did check some of the references.

    What I dont understand is why you would perceive this content as more trustworthy if I didn't say it's AI.

    Nobody should trust blindly some anonymous comment on a forum. I have to check what the AI blurbs out but you can just gobble the comment of some stranger without exercising yourself some critical thinking?

    As long as I'm transparent on the source and especially since I did check some of it to be sure it's not some kind of hallucination...

    There shouldn't be any difference of trust between some random comment on a social network and what some AI model thinks on a subject.

    Also it's not like this is some important topic with societal implications. It's just a technical question that I had (and still doesn't) that doesn't mandate researching. None of my work depends on that lib. So before my comment there was no information on compatibility. Now there is but you have to look at it critically and decide if you want to verify or trust it.

    That's why I regret this kind of stubborn downvoting where people just assume the worse instead of checking the actual data.

    Sometime I really wonder if I'm the only one supposed to check my data? Aren't everybody here capable of verifying the AI output if they think it's worth the time and effort?

    Basically, downvoting here is choosing "no information" rather than "information I have to verify because it's AI generated".

    Edit: Also I could have just summarized the AI output myself and not mention AI. What then? Would you have checked the accuracy of that data? Critical thinking is not something you use "sometimes" or just "on some comments".

    Also it’s not like this is some important topic with societal implications. It’s just a technical question that I had (and still doesn’t) that doesn’t mandate researching.

    So why "research" it with AI in the first place, if you don't care about the results and don't even think it's worth researching? This is legitimately absurd to read.

  • No, Social Media is Not Porn

    Technology technology
    3
    1
    21 Stimmen
    3 Beiträge
    16 Aufrufe
    Z
    This feels dystopian and like overreach. But that said, there definitely is some porn on the 4 platforms they cited. It's an excuse sure, but let's also not deny reality.
  • 137 Stimmen
    41 Beiträge
    45 Aufrufe
    R
    And I think you swallowed one too many Apple ads.
  • 104 Stimmen
    168 Beiträge
    65 Aufrufe
    smartmanapps@programming.devS
    At least that’s not how I’ve been taught in school If you had a bad teacher that doesn't mean everyone else had a bad teacher. You’re not teaching kids how to prove the quadratic formula, do you? We teach them how to do proofs, including several specific ones. No, you teach them how to use it instead. We teach them how to use everything, and how to do proofs as well. Your whole argument is just one big strawman. Again, with the order of operations Happens to be the topic of the post. It’s not a thing Yes it is! I’ve given you two examples that don’t follow any So you could not do the brackets first and still get the right answer? Nope! 2×2×(2-2)/2=0 2×2×2-2/2=7 That’s kinda random, but sure? Not random at all, given you were talking about students understanding how Maths works. 2+3×4 then it’s not an order of operation that plays the role here Yes it is! If I have 1 2-litre bottle of milk, and 4 3-litre bottles of milk, there's only 1 correct answer for how many litres of milk of have, and it ain't 20! Even elementary school kids know how to work it out just by counting up. They all derive from each other No they don't. The proof of order of operations has got nothing to do with any of the properties you mentioned. For example, commutation is used to prove identity And neither is used to prove the order of operations. 2 operators, no order followed Again with a cherry-picked example that only includes operators of the same precedence. You have no property that would allow for (2+3)×4 to be equal 2+3×4 And yet we have a proof of why 14 is the only correct answer to 2+3x4, why you have to do the multiplication first. Is that not correct? Of course it is. So what? It literally has subtraction and distribution No it didn't. It had Brackets (with subtraction inside) and Multiplication and Division. I thought you taught math, no? Yep, and I just pointed out that what you just said is wrong. 2-2(1+2) has Subtraction and Distribution. 2-2 is 2 being, hear me out, subtracted from 2 Which was done first because you had it inside Brackets, therefore not done in the Subtraction step in order of operations, but the Brackets step. Also, can you explain how is that cherry-picking? You already know - you know which operations to pick to make it look like there's no such thing as order of operations. If I tell you to look up at the sky at midnight and say "look - there's no such thing as the sun", that doesn't mean there's no such thing as the sun.
  • ICE Taps into Nationwide AI-Enabled Camera Network, Data Shows

    Technology technology
    80
    1
    486 Stimmen
    80 Beiträge
    22 Aufrufe
    Z
    Their problem with China is the supposed atheism, and that they're not christian fundamentalists.
  • Google Shared My Phone Number!

    Technology technology
    45
    1
    145 Stimmen
    45 Beiträge
    41 Aufrufe
    M
    Italy, and all of Europe, have always had a greater respect for personal and a lesser respect for business' profits than the U.S.
  • 11 Stimmen
    19 Beiträge
    24 Aufrufe
    E
    No, just laminated ones. Closed at one end. Easy enough to make or buy. You can even improvise the propellant.
  • 0 Stimmen
    7 Beiträge
    8 Aufrufe
    C
    Oh this is a good callout, I'm definitely using wired and not wireless.
  • Microsoft's AI Secretly Copying All Your Private Messages

    Technology technology
    4
    1
    0 Stimmen
    4 Beiträge
    17 Aufrufe
    S
    Forgive me for not explaining better. Here are the terms potentially needing explanation. Provisioning in this case is initial system setup, the kind of stuff you would do manually after a fresh install, but usually implies a regimented and repeatable process. Virtual Machine (VM) snapshots are like a save state in a game, and are often used to reset a virtual machine to a particular known-working condition. Preboot Execution Environment (PXE, aka ‘network boot’) is a network adapter feature that lets you boot a physical machine from a hosted network image rather than the usual installation on locally attached storage. It’s probably tucked away in your BIOS settings, but many computers have the feature since it’s a common requirement in commercial deployments. As with the VM snapshot described above, a PXE image is typically a known-working state that resets on each boot. Non-virtualized means not using hardware virtualization, and I meant specifically not running inside a virtual machine. Local-only means without a network or just not booting from a network-hosted image. Telemetry refers to data collecting functionality. Most software has it. Windows has a lot. Telemetry isn’t necessarily bad since it can, for example, help reveal and resolve bugs and usability problems, but it is easily (and has often been) abused by data-hungry corporations like MS, so disabling it is an advisable precaution. MS = Microsoft OSS = Open Source Software Group policies are administrative settings in Windows that control standards (for stuff like security, power management, licensing, file system and settings access, etc.) for user groups on a machine or network. Most users stick with the defaults but you can edit these yourself for a greater degree of control. Docker lets you run software inside “containers” to isolate them from the rest of the environment, exposing and/or virtualizing just the resources they need to run, and Compose is a related tool for defining one or more of these containers, how they interact, etc. To my knowledge there is no one-to-one equivalent for Windows. Obviously, many of these concepts relate to IT work, as are the use-cases I had in mind, but the software is simple enough for the average user if you just pick one of the premade playbooks. (The Atlas playbook is popular among gamers, for example.) Edit: added explanations for docker and telemetry