Can Tesla's Self-Driving Software Handle Bus-Only Lanes? Not Reliably, No.
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At least 54 https://www.tesladeaths.com/
Funny, because one random one of those that I picked:
was marked as "Verified Tesla Autopilot Death"......when all it is is a lawsuit has filed claiming that autopilot resulted in the death. Funnily enough almost every one that I look at is not actually "verified". This one:
Never even mentions autopilot or FSD.
The fine print down the bottom of the page basically says "yeah nah we don't actually know if autopilot or FSD played any part at all in these accidents or deaths, but we don't care because the NHTSA says that the cars have autopilot" lol. The "SGO" they put next to ones that have "confirmed autopilot death" as proof is rubbish, because according to the NHTSA who collect the SGO data, they say this about the ADS/ADAS that this spreadsheet says caused the crash:
It is important to note that these crashes are categorized based on what driving automation system was reported as being equipped on the vehicle, not on what system was reported to be engaged at the time of the incident.
Source: https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting
So basically the people making this site have gone "OMG the SGO categorized this as a Automated Driving System crash!!!! That means Autopilot/FSD caused the crash!!!" before reading what that category actually means lol. Well either that or they do know (most likely) and have a bit of an agenda.
BTW here is another lawsuit over a death where Autopilot was claimed to have caused it:
What was the truth? The driver was drunk and didn't even have autopilot activated. Tesla won the court case. It's almost like people lie when faced with the consequences of their own, or their loved ones, actions and want someone else to be to blame.
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Funny, because one random one of those that I picked:
was marked as "Verified Tesla Autopilot Death"......when all it is is a lawsuit has filed claiming that autopilot resulted in the death. Funnily enough almost every one that I look at is not actually "verified". This one:
Never even mentions autopilot or FSD.
The fine print down the bottom of the page basically says "yeah nah we don't actually know if autopilot or FSD played any part at all in these accidents or deaths, but we don't care because the NHTSA says that the cars have autopilot" lol. The "SGO" they put next to ones that have "confirmed autopilot death" as proof is rubbish, because according to the NHTSA who collect the SGO data, they say this about the ADS/ADAS that this spreadsheet says caused the crash:
It is important to note that these crashes are categorized based on what driving automation system was reported as being equipped on the vehicle, not on what system was reported to be engaged at the time of the incident.
Source: https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting
So basically the people making this site have gone "OMG the SGO categorized this as a Automated Driving System crash!!!! That means Autopilot/FSD caused the crash!!!" before reading what that category actually means lol. Well either that or they do know (most likely) and have a bit of an agenda.
BTW here is another lawsuit over a death where Autopilot was claimed to have caused it:
What was the truth? The driver was drunk and didn't even have autopilot activated. Tesla won the court case. It's almost like people lie when faced with the consequences of their own, or their loved ones, actions and want someone else to be to blame.
You really believe FSD hasn't killed anybody yet?
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You really believe FSD hasn't killed anybody yet?
All I'm saying is that none have been proven to have actually killed anyone yet in a court of law, and that your claim of 57 FSD/Autopilot caused deaths is bogus for all the reasons I listed.
Even if FSD has killed people - which it likely has - is it at any rate higher than normal people in non FSD cars crash and kill people? Given how Teslas are one of the highest selling cars in the world for the last what, 10 years, and how many people use Autpilot or FSD multiple times a day, even if 57 people had been killed by it, that would still be probably no more than the number of people that drive any other model of car with the same amount of sales during that timeframe.
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All I'm saying is that none have been proven to have actually killed anyone yet in a court of law, and that your claim of 57 FSD/Autopilot caused deaths is bogus for all the reasons I listed.
Even if FSD has killed people - which it likely has - is it at any rate higher than normal people in non FSD cars crash and kill people? Given how Teslas are one of the highest selling cars in the world for the last what, 10 years, and how many people use Autpilot or FSD multiple times a day, even if 57 people had been killed by it, that would still be probably no more than the number of people that drive any other model of car with the same amount of sales during that timeframe.
Just How Safe Is Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Mode?
A recent crash video calls into question the safety of Tesla's Full Self-Driving System after software malfunctions.
Forbes (www.forbes.com)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/18/business/tesla-fsd-federal-investigation
It's glorified cruise control. Don't defend their false advertising.
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I work on a computer 8-10 hours a day. I can multitask very well. 800 comments in a month, most which take like 10 seconds to type and hit post, is not some insanely difficult challenge.
How about instead of trying to shame people - while posting on the same site nonetheless lol - you try and post something on topic or productive? Or maybe use that time for something better?
Well thank god we have you do be productive and on topic. Clearly doing a service to the world, and totally not just shit posting out of boredom.
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Did you watch the video? There’s no way that it was just “user error”, nobody randomly swerves into a tree when nothing’s there.
You're assuming that he was paying attention and driving normally. He could have dozed off and pulled the wheel.
All I'm asking for is evidence to support his claim other than "trust me bro".
Tesla gives out beta access to users, so I wouldn’t put too much weight on that claimed version they were using.
As others have pointed out, that version wasn't out to regular people on that day.
It all points to a guy who crashed his car and has now seen an opportunity months later to get his 15 minutes of fame. Why didn't he post about this in FEBRUARY WHEN IT HAPPENED? Why did he not reach out to tesla in the last 3 months? It just doesn't add up. He has provided zero evidence that FSD caused this.
Where are you getting February from?
As far as I know this happened last week. I don't blame the person not wanting to reveal their face. -
He claimed in the video he was using FSD, but then mainly used autopilot - which was one of the biggest issues people had with his video in the first place. Autopilot is not as good as FSD. We also saw FSD engaged for a brief second before disengaging (from what looked like him either turning the wheel or accelerating, or possibly because he activated it 2 seconds before he was about to manually drive through a wall and it realized it as soon as he turned it on).
FSD doesn't require a destination btw.
Are you suggesting that Autopilot is inherently less safe than FSD?
It's not "less safe", it's far less advanced and serves a different purpose.
I genuinely don't understand what FSD has to do with any of it. My car's front collision sensor works regardless of whether cruise control is enabled.
If I'm understanding your argument correctly, the driver needs to enable a setting first for a Tesla not to plow directly into a wall? I would say that makes it less safe.
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Where are you getting February from?
As far as I know this happened last week. I don't blame the person not wanting to reveal their face.The guy posting it everywhere all over reddit and twitter himself says it happened in February. People on here, including myself, have linked to his posts saying it happened in February.
He could simply blur his face…..
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I genuinely don't understand what FSD has to do with any of it. My car's front collision sensor works regardless of whether cruise control is enabled.
If I'm understanding your argument correctly, the driver needs to enable a setting first for a Tesla not to plow directly into a wall? I would say that makes it less safe.
Mark Rober drove a Tesla manually into the fake wall that he made specifically so he could promote his friends LiDAR company. He lied and said he had FSD enabled, then changed his story to say only autopilot was on when called out on his lies.
What car do you have? Are you saying that just in normal everyday manual driving your car would stop your car automatically from 60mph and not hit a wall because of a collision sensor? Collision sensors are for slow moving things that are like 1m in front/behind you.
I’m saying Rober lied, intentionally and deceptively so. FSD has everything to do with it because he said FSD drove him into the wall, but it wasn’t even enabled - he manually drove straight through the wall.
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Mark Rober drove a Tesla manually into the fake wall that he made specifically so he could promote his friends LiDAR company. He lied and said he had FSD enabled, then changed his story to say only autopilot was on when called out on his lies.
What car do you have? Are you saying that just in normal everyday manual driving your car would stop your car automatically from 60mph and not hit a wall because of a collision sensor? Collision sensors are for slow moving things that are like 1m in front/behind you.
I’m saying Rober lied, intentionally and deceptively so. FSD has everything to do with it because he said FSD drove him into the wall, but it wasn’t even enabled - he manually drove straight through the wall.
What car do you have?
Volkswagen Group vehicle.
Are you saying that just in normal everyday manual driving your car would stop your car automatically from 60mph and not hit a wall because of a collision sensor?
My car's AEBS will apply braking, shake the steering wheel, sound a loud alarm and flash the dashboard. I can't say for sure if it applies full braking, or if that only applies at lower speeds.
Collision sensors are for slow moving things that are like 1m in front/behind you.
Perhaps I've not described the system accurately, because I'm not referring to parking sensors. My car's owner's manual states that AEBS works at speeds up to 220 km/h, and I've personally experienced it trigger while going over 120 km/h.
My take on Rober's video is simply that Tesla's automated driver safety systems are sub-par compared to other manufacturers. Perhaps somebody could perform another test with FSD enabled, but I personally don't think it's safe to require a driver to first enable a specific mode in order to avoid an accident—then they might as well just press the brakes themselves.
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Well thank god we have you do be productive and on topic. Clearly doing a service to the world, and totally not just shit posting out of boredom.
Just block this maroon, he's jacking off to consternation instead of working his help desk job
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Just How Safe Is Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Mode?
A recent crash video calls into question the safety of Tesla's Full Self-Driving System after software malfunctions.
Forbes (www.forbes.com)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/18/business/tesla-fsd-federal-investigation
It's glorified cruise control. Don't defend their false advertising.
Lol, this fascist bootlicker down voted you instead of spraying more gishgallop
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Lol, this fascist bootlicker down voted you instead of spraying more gishgallop
Yeah
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Rober got absolutely destroyed, and rightly so, for that BS video and “test”. He didn’t even use FSD - he just drove straight into the fake wall and then claimed FSD did it. We could literally see the cars screen showing FSD wasn’t on, or even autopilot.
It switched autopilot off when the parking sensors (ultrasonic/radar range finder with a very narrow range) detected the wall.
If Tesla isn’t doing that to hide deficiencies from NHTSA investigations, I’ll eat my shoe.
Also FSD is an app running on the same hardware and camera systems as autopilot, what would make it better at “seeing” through mist or a reasonable facsimile of the road up ahead?
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It's not hard to find videos of self-driving Teslas wilding in bus lanes. Check the videos out, then consider:
"There was an interesting side-note in Tesla’s last earnings call, where they explained the main challenge of releasing Full-Self Driving (supervised!) in China was a quirk of Chinese roads: the bus-only lanes.
Well, jeez, we have bus-only lanes here in Chicago, too. Like many other American metropolises… including Austin TX, where Tesla plans to rollout unsupervised autonomous vehicles in a matter of weeks..."
It's one of those regional differences to driving that make a generalizable self-driving platform an exceedingly tough technical nut to crack... unless you're willing to just plain ignore the local rules.
Rest of the worlds solution: remove Tesla
American solution : remove bus lanes
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It’s actually extremely straightforward to mark lanes as “bus-only” when you map out roads
Yeah... until they change. And municipalities are not known for thoroughly documenting their changes, nor companies keeping their info up to date even if those changes are provided.
Sooooo .... You people don't have signs? Because my car can read those.
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What car do you have?
Volkswagen Group vehicle.
Are you saying that just in normal everyday manual driving your car would stop your car automatically from 60mph and not hit a wall because of a collision sensor?
My car's AEBS will apply braking, shake the steering wheel, sound a loud alarm and flash the dashboard. I can't say for sure if it applies full braking, or if that only applies at lower speeds.
Collision sensors are for slow moving things that are like 1m in front/behind you.
Perhaps I've not described the system accurately, because I'm not referring to parking sensors. My car's owner's manual states that AEBS works at speeds up to 220 km/h, and I've personally experienced it trigger while going over 120 km/h.
My take on Rober's video is simply that Tesla's automated driver safety systems are sub-par compared to other manufacturers. Perhaps somebody could perform another test with FSD enabled, but I personally don't think it's safe to require a driver to first enable a specific mode in order to avoid an accident—then they might as well just press the brakes themselves.
I’m not aware of any cars that will use radar, cameras, or lidar all the time and automatically stop your car to a complete standstill while you’re manually operating it. Yours does this? It physically won’t let you run into something, ever?
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It switched autopilot off when the parking sensors (ultrasonic/radar range finder with a very narrow range) detected the wall.
If Tesla isn’t doing that to hide deficiencies from NHTSA investigations, I’ll eat my shoe.
Also FSD is an app running on the same hardware and camera systems as autopilot, what would make it better at “seeing” through mist or a reasonable facsimile of the road up ahead?
No it didn’t switch it off because of that.
FSD and autopilot do different things using the same data. It’s fact that they behave differently.
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The guy posting it everywhere all over reddit and twitter himself says it happened in February. People on here, including myself, have linked to his posts saying it happened in February.
He could simply blur his face…..
Well now you've made me go read all their Reddit comments. It happened February 27, and they said it took 2 months for their insurance to get processed. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to wait until they've got everything sorted out before posting.
Based on pictures of the dash cam files they posted, I don't think they have internal video, they would have had to turn it on before hand I think? Tesla mostly talks about sentry mode internal camera, so I don't actually know if it would record by default.
But again, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to edit a video with face blurring and everything, they don't owe the Internet anything, and not everyone even knows how.I'll be honest I don't know for sure they're being truthful, but I'm certainly a lot less skeptical about than you. I think enough of their story checks out that I'm not going to discount it based on lack of additional info alone. I haven't seen them contradict themselves anywhere.
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I’m not aware of any cars that will use radar, cameras, or lidar all the time and automatically stop your car to a complete standstill while you’re manually operating it. Yours does this? It physically won’t let you run into something, ever?
Yes, it does. It performs speed sign recognition and lane departure warning continuously as well, but will only perform steering correction above a minimum speed (I believe 50 kmh) and adjust the speed while adaptive cruise control is switched on.
