That's kind of the thing, we want to think they're a bunch of sexless losers, but the basic tenets of advice you get from the manosphere will probably get you laid if you follow it. Following manosphere advice works because it's the exact same advice you just laid out but packaged in a more attractive and focused manner. It just happens to be with a side of right wing politics and more than a bit of misogyny.

There are tons of young black men in the manosphere, too. Or else with whom manosphere ideas resonate. Don't be racist.

You are making an excellent point right up until your last paragraph. What 15 year old boy wants to be Mr Fucking Rogers? Sure, maybe they want to be him in like 40 years (but only the version of him who was secretly a marine sniper covered in tattoos everywhere his sweaters hid). What does a 15 year old boy who is vulnerable to the manosphere want? He wants to get paid and get laid.

Trying to shove a 15 year old's raging hormones and desire for rebellion and independence into a Mr Rogers box will only lead to... more rebellion. Give the kids role models who are good people, who also succeed at things they care about.

Was with you until that last bit. I'm not opposed to democratic reforms or testing socialist ideas piecemeal. But massive restructurings of society towards utopia have.... a history....

[Hint: lots of people die]

I haven't heard men say shit this stupid my whole life. This isn't 'tradition' it's a growing hate movement.

Yes. Correct. But talk to a boy in Jr. High. They aren't as smart about this as you might hope.

“men are simple creatures”, “keep your belly fully and balls empty and we’re happy” ect, like, is that not demeaning to men?

Personally, not inherently, no. And definitely not in context, context here being the existence of "men are primitive" and "men only want one thing and it's disgusting". Is it reductive, yes, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Catch some fish, chop some wood, smoke the critters, unclog the sink so that stubbles will actually flush instead of cling to the rim, annoying the wife (for incomprehensible reasons, but a well-functioning drain is its own reward), be a rollercoaster for the kids, kick back on the sofa, get your balls emptied, if that's not a satisfying day then you have issues.

Complexity is not a good in itself. Be only as complex as is necessary to stay simple.

Succeed at capitalism? That’s a fool’s errand

I did it. Lots of people I know did it. The main trick is cutting toxic people out of your life, moving to a better place, and making new friends who are also dedicated to succeeding.

But as you describe, is that every man?

Certainly not.

I'm mom and I'm the rollercoaster, the house repair gal, and I have a higher drive than my husband, though I would never describe our booty time as, "getting my balls emptied" or some female equivalent. It's more like, activity time with my best friend, alas,

You just sterotyped an entire cohort of people in your description, I hope you understand that.

I refuse to sterotype my fellow women. I know women, we are all different, and I myself, don't hit many of the sterotypical markers.

You describe your version of the every man's day here, then say any man who lives differently has issues, because that day isn't satisfying for them. Is that kind towards your fellow men you think?

Lots of people die in the United States as it is. Homelessness is rising drastically. How long until you're next to be put out onto the street? Your employer can't wait until they can automate your job and fire you.

Also, the United States has a long history of carrying out genocide even prior to Gaza. Odd given your fallacious implication that capitalism is peaceful

Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66 - Wikipedia

(en.m.wikipedia.org)

Just because the youtube algorithm promotes outrage doesn't make it right.

You are completely overthinking it. I readily acknowledged it is reductive. And my example was an example, a vibe. I do not, in fact, fish. Nor consider desert dwellers to be less masculine or something.

A typical male experience in a hetero relationship is that women are overly fussy over many things, I think most of it is culture (a generalised fear of a catty mother in law not considering you good enough for her son causing a fear of losing your partner because he might listen to her instead of you) so when we hear "men are simple" we don't hear "men are stupid" but "finally, someone who understands the pointlessness of having seasonal napkins". If you wanted to say "men are stupid" you'd have said "men are primitive", it's not hard to tell apart. We do, in fact, have social and contextual awareness, I freely admit that we use obliviousness as a conscious strategy.

Are there men who are totally into decorative towels? Sure, but if we hedge everything with "but not everyone does that", "of course, all people are unique and different" then communication becomes a chore. It's like hearing "sunscreen is important" and insisting "of course, if it's winter that's a different issue, we wouldn't want to essentialise weather to be carcinogenic". Come on.

And our interaction here, ironically, falls into a similar pattern. "No, really, it's fine that we don't have decorative towels" -- "There must be a deeper meaning behind this, a social force, someone pulling his strings, why would anyone not want to have complex things like decorative towels, what is the meaning of this, am I on top of the situation"... no. He meant what he said, exactly that, and nothing more: My hands are dry, the towels didn't make them dirty again, that's all I need from a towel. I want my pants to have pockets so I buy them with pockets instead of worrying whether they ruin the silhouette and agonising over compromises. There's a lot of freedom in simplicity. That inner mother in law, though? Of course everything is complicated, how else would she be able to drive you crazy.

I've got a song for you.

Let's try this again: If, as you say "women do empathy, men do resilience", then why should childcare be 70:30? Why not 50:50 so the kids get taught empathy and resilience in equal measure? Also, how can you even be empathetic if you lack in the resilience department.

I haven't seen any radical female content creators personally, and there certainly doesn't seem to be a large industry of them forming. If there is they're very well hidden and poorly advertised.

But if that happens I'd absolutely be for talking people away from listening to them.

"Unwomen" rings a bell for me.

I looked it up, and in Margaret Atwood's novel The Handmaid 's Tale, Unwomen were infertile women sent to clean up toxic waste in the colonies.

Women and men-only clubs have a lot of value. We have women only clubs at work because our industry is pretty male-centric, so getting women access to good female mentors is super important because they're distributed across the company. Men can be good mentors for women too, sure, but anytime there's a minority, it's important to connect them to help them recognize and point out implicit biases. We have groups like that for racial minorities as well, and I think it's great.

Men and women also bond differently, so having a gender-specific club can lower barriers to connecting and finding support. That's true for other characteristics as well, like sexual and gender identity, race (I'm a huge fan of our black chamber of commerce in our predominantly white area), age, etc.

We should embrace and celebrate our differences, not try to hide them away. Let everyone have their own club, and maintain rules against intolerance as well.

Not false at all but a big part imo is also learned, it's like if I have 10 problems, 5 of which are totally my fault, and the only one talking about the other 5 says "ALL your problems are not your fault."

It's like one person actually fully reflected their experiences back to them, but then peddled a ton of lies along with it.

Oh, finally. The sexless/incels is a tiny part of the manosphere. We see them because we want to. You don't need to respect women in order to get affection, you need it to build love and trust

there was also tons of jews who supported hitler. The 'manosphere' pretends to be inclusive to men when its just a white nationalist spin off.

"see we have some black supporters! dont mind what we have planned for them after we take-over please! grrr! those pesky woman wont let us get laid! focus on that not the swastika in the background!"

Tell that to a child slave in a cobalt mine.

Being "dedicated to succeeding" is a one-way ticket to burnout.