What conversation though? The guys that lap this up dont even have conversations with women and feminists to begin with, which is why they can be manipulated to accept such a slanted view of their arguments - they have no point of reference. Akin to how people with no Muslim friends or colleagues in their lives are more easily misled to believe fearmongering and misinformation spread about them.
I think you touched on the real root of the problem: influencers and social media funneling people into echo chambers.

I get that both sides sometimes talk past one another, but in my experience the young guys I talk to (via gaming mostly) have never spoken to a feminist or read a lick of literature and when bored online have just sought out a voice that tells them they are the good guy, or shits on a demographic that's not them. Those voices usually start in the 'feminist fails #38' style YouTube videos (cut and edited to misrepresent of course).. then the Stephen Crowders.. and the Andrew Tates. The pipeline to the manosphere / red pill scumbags, or worse incels or blackpill.

These guys existing and their views increasing is not necessarily a symptom that feminists are messaging incorrectly or that academics need to use different words to explain systemic issues - IMO they're just another wonderful side effect of the "eyeballs = money, damn the content" algorithm preferences on social media, coupled with a very accepting attitude towards mysogyny and redpill content in Facebook, YouTube and other major social media content curation teams. All you have to do is look at who they censure and ban and who they don't (and who they unban), and who they promote. Go use a fresh install of one of these platforms on a new device to see what their algorithm promotes in the main feed to a fresh new user. The angry rich white guy influencers get peppered in amongst the Mr Beast and music videos from the first couple of pages, so it's no wonder more guys are exposed to this bullshit.

I tell the guys I've spoken with that those 'entertainers' are poison, chipping away at their empathy and compassion and pushing them to more isolation and fear - and that they need to be critical of what the influencers claim, and show curiosity for the community around them and engage with it rather than accept the simplistic charade. I've converted a few but its an uphill battle and that conversation takes months. The article points out that this is an issue that needs to be addressed - not that 'boys need to be fixed'.. but that the rise of this manosphere is damaging to all - men and women, and should be addressed systemically. Be that by parents paying closer attention to their kids content consuming habits, regulation for social media giants, laws against those who encourage sexual assault or violence, enshrining rights and protections more clearly into law, and so on - multi-pronged. The trouble is, a huge amount of guys commenting on this very article didn't bother to read it and went straight to the usual talking points. I don't think that's you, but I think you can see the comments I mean.

And as usual, in an act of irony, men are the biggest misandrist, and my biggest source of pain

I think you're confusing misandry with people just not liking you. It's exceedingly rare for men to be harassed or oppressed simply for their gender.

I don't like this social contract where I get fucked over no matter what

Lol, what are you talking about? Everyone keeps saying this shit, but no one is giving any real world examples. I am a man, if there is some social contract that sets men up to lose, why am I not experiencing it? I'm married, I have friends who are women, I work with several women, I don't have any problems with the opposing sex? Maybe it's a you problem and not a societal one?

I'm just going to abandon it, and lead a massive exile with me. I already have a solar panel, and plan to get more.

Lol, your username is apt. You think you're going to be the Moses of incels and lead a bunch of morons off to the woods with nothing but a solar panel?

Or the new star wars "movies"

Or you start being a 'man' or rather human, and create the life that you want.

If you see yourself as human resource, you are not worth more than that commodity and that value is all you have. Instead, meet other people and start creating.

I'm sick and tired of hitting a wall. I can't live with a hostile family constantly sabotaging my efforts. I'm supposed to at least have some respite at home, people aren't supposed to laugh at you when you try to improve yourself. I have no other recourse, I will just finally blow my fucking head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong.

I think its got merit. Do you recall Steve Bannon when he was just starting out and I quote : "In describing gamers, Bannon said, These guys, these rootless white males, had monster power. ... It was the pre-reddit. It's the same guys on (one of a trio of online message boards owned by IGE) Thottbot who were [later] on reddit" and other online message boards where the alt-right flourished, Bannon said"

this was him talking about World of Warcraft....

I'm sick and tired of hitting a wall. I can't live with a hostile family constantly sabotaging my efforts. I'm supposed to at least have some respite at home, people aren't supposed to laugh at you when you try to improve yourself. I have no other recourse, I will just finally blow my fucking head off next pay. Then maybe they will finally ask if they did something wrong.

A commercial incentive?

If you want to commercialize solving the ills of society, you end up with death camps as being simply the end result of efficiency.

If you want to solve the problems of various demographics rather then viewing them as gender-specific instances in order to benefit the whole of society you get, among other benefits, a lot less genocide.

I mean yes race does intersect, it’s a longer discussion, I guess I’m just tired of this “whiteness” critique because it feels cheap and easy, hence intellectually lazy. Anything that happens in the west politically can be linked back to whiteness one way or another. I don’t think it’s been particularly helpful as a critique, in fact I think it has backfired and probably needs to go.

Can I ask a question ? Why do you assume that feminists were ever pro-left ??
Seriously

True, if we are talking as if today was 1950 and the socioeconomic situation were the same. But it's not. There's almost 80 years of progress and the socioeconomic situation is not even comparable. So, although true it was a problem 80 years ago, its a bit shortsigthed to claim same applies today.

You don’t fix this by lecturing young men. You fix it by giving them a sense of purpose and identity that doesn’t rely on putting someone else down.

Sounds like they need the shit slapped out of them.

Maybe they should just take the advice that we've been giving to women and minorities for the last 100 years and tell them that if they want to succeed they should just fucking work harder at it.

To paraphrase Jon Lovett, they have "back of the classroom energy" while the left has "front of the classroom energy".

"Teacher teacher, he said something some people might find offensive! Send him to the principal's office"

"Thanks for narcing me out, r****d"

"Teacher teacher, he just said the r-word!"

The left just isn't equipped to deal with the manosphere. Everything the left does just makes the manosphere seem even more cool to the kids.

"The UN is worried about these guys, they must be really badass!"

Wat?

The manosphere is literally a bunch of losers that can't get laid and are making excuses for it.

Work out. Have a career. Don't be a asshole. Do that and you can get laid but that's too hard for some folks.

The 1950s was when women were relegated to the role of housewife. You are asking why women don't want to be relegated to that role.

I read the article and followed the thread. And yeah, online misogyny is a real problem. But here's what no one wants to talk about. We’ve failed young men. Full stop.

About ten years ago, a friend of mine who’s gone now pointed me toward this thing called MGTOW. “Men Going Their Own Way.” I had just come out of a toxic divorce, so the idea of stepping back from dating and learning to enjoy life on my own terms seemed kind of healthy. At first glance, it looked like a decent idea. Just guys doing their own thing, not hassling anyone.

But once I started digging, I realized something else was going on. Beneath the surface, it wasn’t about peace or self-sufficiency. It was this boiling cauldron of resentment and hatred, mostly aimed at women. What looked like a community of self-reliant men turned out to be a recruiting ground for bitterness and blame. I didn’t buy into it, because I wasn’t angry at the world. But I could see how someone who felt isolated and ignored might get sucked in.

That’s what a lot of this comes down to. Loneliness. Disconnection. No sense of value or direction. And then someone online tells you it’s not your fault, it’s women’s fault, or society’s fault, or anyone but you. That stuff spreads fast because it gives people something to belong to.

I’m not saying you excuse the hate. But we better understand where it’s coming from if we want to stop it. You don’t fix this by lecturing young men. You fix it by giving them a sense of purpose and identity that doesn’t rely on putting someone else down.

And no, masculinity itself is not the enemy. We need better models of it. Mr. Rogers comes to mind. He was kind, decent, and strong in a quiet way. He didn’t need to bully or dominate anyone to be respected. That’s the kind of example we ought to be lifting up.

That has nothing to do with my remark. The far-right is anti-feminist.

As to you question, there are many different strands of feminism and Marxist feminism, anarcha-feminism, intersectional feminism, queer feminism etc. are very much pro-left.

Sure Finland's female-led coalition party is not feminists according to YOU<br>
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55020994

So pro-left they are & yet so pro-war, TERFs are a thing too & guess what ? The feminists do not oppose the draft. (Finland has a male-only draft & wants to join NATO which totally a defensive alliance)

There was nothing wrong with that role then, and there is nothing wrong with the role now. The main difference is that in 1950 women had no choice but to be a housewife, and today women have choices, and when comparing them, being a housewife doesn't look half as bad.

I'm literally fucking gaslight by being told I don't have ADHD, told my stomach issues are just because I eat fast, planning is stupid and other incredibly dumb shit. I have to listen to an anti-waxxer father talk shit for over an hour. I had to watch friends sprout sigma shit, called a woman I brought into the server "the huzz", and called me a fucking pussy. Actually, I don't have to deal with your bullshit either.