There is a more specific word for it: Institutional racism.

Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of institutional discrimination based on race or ethnic group and can include policies and practices that exist throughout a whole society or organization that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others. It manifests as discrimination in areas such as criminal justice, employment, housing, healthcare, education and political representation.[1]

I would prefer that as a community, we acknowledge the existence of this bias in healthcare data, and also acknowledge how harmful that bias is while using adequate resources to remedy the known issues.

There is a more specific word for it: Institutional racism.

Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of institutional discrimination based on race or ethnic group and can include policies and practices that exist throughout a whole society or organization that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others. It manifests as discrimination in areas such as criminal justice, employment, housing, healthcare, education and political representation.[1]

Doctors are best at diagnosing skin cancer in people of the same skin type as themselves, it's just a case of familiarity. Black people should have black skin doctors for highest success rates, white people should have white doctors for highest success rates. Perhaps the next generation of doctors might show more broad success but that remains to be seen in research.

Media forcing opinions using the same framework they always use.

Regardless if it's the right or the left. Media is owned by people lik the Koch and bannons and Murdoch's even left leading media.

They don't want the left using AI or building on it. They've been pushing a ton of articles to left leaning spaces using the same framework they use when it's election season and are looking to spin up the right wing base. It's all about taking jobs, threats to children, status quo.

Who said that?

They absolutely have power over the data sets.

They could also fund research into other cancers and work with other countries like ones in Africa where there are more black people to sample.

It's impossible to know intent but it does seem pretty intentionally eugenics of them to do this when it has been widely criticized and they refuse to fix it. So I'd say it is explicitly racist.

if only you read more than three sentences you'd see the problem is with the training data. instead you chose to make sure no one said the R word. ben shapiro would be proud

Eugenics??? That's crazy.

So you'd prefer that they don't even start working with this screening method until we have gathered enough data to satisfy everyones representation?

Let's just do that and not do anything until everyone is happy. Nothing will happen ever and we will all collectively suffer.

How about this. Let's let the people with the knowledge use this "racist" data and help move the bar for health forward for everyone.

It isn't crazy and it's the basis for bioethics, something I had to learn about when becoming a bioengineer who also worked with people who literally designed AI today and they continue to work with MIT, Google, and Stanford on machine learning... I have spoked extensively with these people about ethics and a large portion of any AI engineer's job is literally just ethics. Actually, a lot of engineering is learning ethics and accidents - they go hand in hand, like the Hotel Hyatt collapse.

I never suggested they stop developing the screening technology, don't strawman, it's boring. I literally gave suggestions for how they can fix it and fix their data so it is no longer functioning as a tool of eugenics.

Different case below, but related sentiment that AI is NOT a separate entity from its creators/engineers and they ABSOLUTELY should be held liable for the outcomes of what they engineer regardless of provable intent.

Character.ai Faces Lawsuit After Teen’s Suicide - Lemmy.World

The mother of a 14-year-old Florida boy says he became obsessed with a chatbot on Character.AI [http://Character.AI] before his death. On the last day of his life, Sewell Setzer III took out his phone and texted his closest friend: a lifelike A.I. chatbot named after Daenerys Targaryen, a character from “Game of Thrones.” “I miss you, baby sister,” he wrote. “I miss you too, sweet brother,” the chatbot replied. Sewell, a 14-year-old ninth grader from Orlando, Fla., had spent months talking to chatbots on Character.AI [http://Character.AI], a role-playing app that allows users to create their own A.I. characters or chat with characters created by others. Sewell knew that “Dany,” as he called the chatbot, wasn’t a real person — that its responses were just the outputs of an A.I. language model, that there was no human on the other side of the screen typing back. (And if he ever forgot, there was the message displayed above all their chats, reminding him that “everything Characters say is made up!”) But he developed an emotional attachment anyway. He texted the bot constantly, updating it dozens of times a day on his life and engaging in long role-playing dialogues.

(lemmy.world)

You don’t think the people who make the generative algorithm have a duty to what it generates?

And whatever you think anyway, the company itself shows that it feels obligated about what the AI puts out, because they are constantly trying to stop the AI from giving out bomb instructions and hate speech and illegal sexual content.

The standard is not and was never if they were “entirely” at fault here. It’s whether they have any responsibility towards this (and we all here can see that they do indeed have some), and how much financially that’s worth in damages.

you cant diagnosed melanoma just by the skin features alone, you need biopsy and gene tic testing too. furthermore, other types of melanoma do not have typical abcde signs sometimes.

histopathology gives the accurate indication if its melonoma or something else, and how far it spread in the sample.

I know what bioethics is and how it applies to research and engineering. Your response doesn't seem to really get to the core of what I'm saying: which is that the people making the AI tool aren't racist.

Help me out: what do the researchers creating this AI screening tool in its current form (with racist data) have to do with it being a tool of eugenics? That's quite a damning statement.

I'm assuming you have a much deeper understanding of what kind of data this AI screening tool uses and the finances and whatever else that goes into it. I feel that the whole "talk with Africa" to balance out the data is not great sounding and is overly simplified.

Do you really believe that the people who created this AI screening tool should be punished for using this racist data, regardless of provable intent? Even if it saved lives?

Does this kind of punishment apply to the doctor who used this unethical AI tool? His knowledge has to go into building it up somehow. Is he, by extension, a tool of eugenics too?

I understand ethical obligations and that we need higher standards moving forward in society. But even if the data right now is unethical, and it saves lives, we should absolutely use it.

I addressed that point by saying their intent to be racist or not is irrelevant when we focus on impact to the actual victims (ie systemic racism). Who cares about the individual engineer's morality and thoughts when we have provable, measurable evidence of racial disparity that we can correct easily?

It literally allows black people to die and saves white people more. That's eugenics.

It is fine to coordinate with universities in like Kenya, what are you talking about?

I never said shit about the makers of THIS tool being punished! Learn to read! I said the tool needs fixed!

Like seriously you are constantly taking the position of the white male, empathizing, then running interference for him as if he was you and as if I'm your mommy about to spank you. Stop being weird and projecting your bullshit.

Yes, doctors who use this tool on their black patients and white patients equally would be perofmring eugenics, just like the doctors who sterikized indigenous women because they were poor were doing the same. Again, intent and your ego isn't relevanf when we focus on impacts to victims and how to help them.

We should demand they work in a very meaningful way to get the data to be as good for black people as their #1 priority, ie doing studies and collecting that data

Define eugenics for me, please.

You're saying the tool in its current form with it's data "seems pretty intentionally eugenics" and..."a tool for eugenics". And since you said the people who made that data, the AI tool, and those who are now using it are also responsible for anything bad ...they are by your supposed extension eugenicists/racists and whatever other grotesque and immoral thing you can think of. Because your link says that regardless of intention, the AI engineers should ABSOLUTELY be punished.

They have to fix it, of course, so it can become something other than a tool for eugenics as it is currently. Can you see where I think your argument goes way beyond rational?

Would I have had this conversation with you if the tool worked really well on only black people and allowed white people to die disproportionately? I honestly can't say. But I feel you would be quiet on the issue. Am I wrong?

I don't think using the data, as it is, to save lives makes you racist or supports eugenics. You seem to believe it does. That's what I'm getting after. That's why I think we are reading different books.

Once again...define eugenics for me, please.

Regardless, nothing I have said means that I don't recognize institutional racism and that I don't want the data set to become more evenly distributed so it takes into consideration the full spectrum of human life and helps ALL people.