For All That Is Good About Humankind, Ban Smartphones
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I'm pretty far down the luddite/makhaevist wormhole... But this is just a garbage idea.
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Social media, algorithms and echo chambers they create are 80% of the problem degrading societies.
You mean it's not the genocide, exploitation, imperialism, etc? It's just social media? Peak capitalist apologism.
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Author admits smartphones are ubiquitous, and doesn't at all consider, in a hypothetical situation where everyone unanimously agreed to stop using them, where all this e-waste will go?
Also, how do you disillusion the millions of people that use them religiously?
I get the sentiment, but only a significant technologically literate society would really appreciate the need for greater control over their devices and actually possess the skills needed to modify and configure them.
Author admits smartphones are ubiquitous, and doesn’t at all consider, in a hypothetical situation where everyone unanimously agreed to stop using them, where all this e-waste will go?
Pretty much every single smartphone in use right now will be ewaste 20 years from now, and most of them will be within 10. So we have that disposal problem already regardless. Hypothetically, if everyone were to get rid of their phones, we'd at least stop creating even more future ewaste.
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Why is the left so intent on becoming Luddites? What the fuck is this timeline?
Because luddism is good. But this article aint it.
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You realized I said "replaced"?
So you used to hang out with your friends and share articles and comment on them in person then upvote/downvote and moderate? ok sure whatever you say...
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Because luddism is good. But this article aint it.
No it isn’t. Technology is the evolutionary adaptation of humanity. It would be like a tiger cutting off its claws, or a rabbit breaking its own legs.
This left wing Luddite attitude is simply fueled by fucking tribalism because it wasn’t really anywhere to be found until the tech bros turned republican.
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Author admits smartphones are ubiquitous, and doesn't at all consider, in a hypothetical situation where everyone unanimously agreed to stop using them, where all this e-waste will go?
Also, how do you disillusion the millions of people that use them religiously?
I get the sentiment, but only a significant technologically literate society would really appreciate the need for greater control over their devices and actually possess the skills needed to modify and configure them.
Current smart phones will become e-waste either way. On that front, the benefit would be forcing all manufacturers to stop creating more e-waste for the future.
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So you used to hang out with your friends and share articles and comment on them in person then upvote/downvote and moderate? ok sure whatever you say...
So you used to hang out with your friends
Yes
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And then what? Go back to the stone age?
Kids waiting to get picked at school and their parents have emergency, how are they gonna inform the others to get picked up? Are they gonna just let that kid suck it up and wait for hours, just like the good old times?
The stone age = any time before 2005 apparently
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I agree, except that we are legally not allowed to control the software on our phones in lots of cases. Notifications, ads, upgrades, etc. are all controlled by the manufacturer and it's illegal to override their software on the device you own.
Add to that that specific pieces of software are becoming increasingly necessary to function in society, and you start to see that it's not really a matter of individual choice, anymore than people shopping at walmart can be blamed for buying processed, sugary foods when that's 90% of what walmart stocks (And all they promote), and walmart is the only affordable option in their community.
I've been able to turn off notifications for anything on my phone. Only the few apps I choose to allow still give me notifications.
I am fortunate to have a job that does not require a cell phone, I can leave it behind for hours at a time without affecting my work. I know this is not the case for everyone, but it should be an option.
At the very least, a phone required for work should have a separate phone number and email account, and should turn off automatically after the employee clocks out for the day. Some countries already have laws about this stuff, we should do that more.
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Ban social media and advertising/marketing. Smart phones are just a small computer.
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It’s not a trick. Just like eating sugar, or drinking alcohol etc. you need to have the self awareness to say “hey I’m indulging too much in this and this is not good for me, let me take a break”.
I think my first post on lemmy was about the necessity of limiting algorithms on social media. So I’m in favor of that. But even before social media people were getting addicted to online interaction, like I have met people that have told me they were addicted to chatrooms in the 90s and early 2000s. So even if you do limit the power of the algorithm you’ll still have people glued to their screens scrolling for hours.
We land on somewhat different sides of the neoliberal fence, I think.
The substances sugar, alcohol, tobacco, sure. Potentially harmful but not malicious. As long as we're talking about adults I mostly agree (although there are many regulations around them in all parts of the world. Smoking in public places, drinking when operating machinery and so on.) A company trying to manipulate people with ads to consume more of these substances: different story altogether since now there's at the very least neglect of societal responsibility involved- can and should be regulated. I can't think of a single reason why ads for alcohol should be allowed, for example. Here in a middle European country advertising spirits or nicotine products is illegal, while ads for beer/wine are legal under certain conditions. Slot machines and similar gambling are illegal while casino games like Roulette and Black Jack are very strictly regulated but legal. What's the situation in your corner of the world and what's your take on it?
What to regulate and to which extent is not trivial of course, but especially when it comes to social media we're so far removed from "too much regulation" that I don't think it's worth going into it here. Banning Smartphones is obviously not the answer either way.
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Many of us want to disconnect, but we can’t do so alone — not without losing touch with the world around us. Disconnection, today, carries real social and economic costs. Until such time as smartphones and social media can be democratically governed or nationalized — liberated from the imperative to profit off our attention indefinitely — a ban may be the most realistic path to reclaiming our lives.
If the author can't stop using whatever website he's upset about without requiring everyone else to have their smartphones banned, that sounds like a him problem.
I am trying so hard to not just make snarky comments but Jesus fucking Christ can you actually read the quote you posted and think about what they may be talking about?
I'm not on twitter and never have been. That significantly impacts the information that I recive and I am usually getting news a day or so later than people that are on twitter. That has social consequences and means that I am less able to talk about recent events. That's just one example on how you can not separate yourself from the information economy without negatively impacting your socialization.
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You mean it's not the genocide, exploitation, imperialism, etc? It's just social media? Peak capitalist apologism.
You understand that social media helps create and reinforce those things right? Social media has lead to the fall of America into fascism. It might have if social media didn't exist but this rise in fascism is directly related to social media and the way that it fucks with peoles heads.
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We land on somewhat different sides of the neoliberal fence, I think.
The substances sugar, alcohol, tobacco, sure. Potentially harmful but not malicious. As long as we're talking about adults I mostly agree (although there are many regulations around them in all parts of the world. Smoking in public places, drinking when operating machinery and so on.) A company trying to manipulate people with ads to consume more of these substances: different story altogether since now there's at the very least neglect of societal responsibility involved- can and should be regulated. I can't think of a single reason why ads for alcohol should be allowed, for example. Here in a middle European country advertising spirits or nicotine products is illegal, while ads for beer/wine are legal under certain conditions. Slot machines and similar gambling are illegal while casino games like Roulette and Black Jack are very strictly regulated but legal. What's the situation in your corner of the world and what's your take on it?
What to regulate and to which extent is not trivial of course, but especially when it comes to social media we're so far removed from "too much regulation" that I don't think it's worth going into it here. Banning Smartphones is obviously not the answer either way.
I’m in the US, we have advertising for everything. I haven’t thought about this to be honest. Because advertising medicine feels wrong to me, but at the same time I don’t have much of an issue with advertising alcohol or even tobacco. I think I would allow them with the caveat that for every dollar invested in their advertising the companies also have to invest in a fund for advertising responsible drinking etc. makes it expensive to advertise, but not illegal nor difficult.
I’m for banning or regulating the alteration of products in such a way that they become more addictive than they would naturally be, but in terms of things themselves I don’t think anything being illegal or heavily regulated to the point it is almost illegal solves any issues. So for example smoking being prohibited in public spaces makes sense because you are forcing others to smoke with you; but who exactly is harmed by gambling except the one gambling? Will they stop gambling if it is illegal? Probably not. So for me the historical evidence tells me that prohibiting the supply of anything while the demand exists simply causes black markets to pop up, which cause infinitely more issues than the thing itself being legal. So I’m pretty much against making any of these things illegal.
Limit the age to which the thing is accessible and put some taxes on it that fund awareness of addiction and programs to help people recover from addiction.
In terms of social media I think the regulation should be that by default the algorithm is simply “chronological “ ie it shows you everything posted by everyone you follow in the order they posted it. Then there can be a discovery or suggestion algorithm as a separate feed but it should be fully open so that anyone with the technical know how can pin point exactly what signals it is using to suggest content. I think that would go a long way.
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And then what? Go back to the stone age?
Kids waiting to get picked at school and their parents have emergency, how are they gonna inform the others to get picked up? Are they gonna just let that kid suck it up and wait for hours, just like the good old times?
1-800-collect
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The problem is with planned obsolescence and capitalist drive to always make more. The device itself is not inherently bad, it's a glorified calculator.
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Ban smartphones makes about as much sense as ban drugs or ban guns. It does nothing to address root causes and will do little to change anything for the better. Societal issues take more than “make X illegal”.
Battling anything is built of two parts, making it immoral, and making it illegal. Making it illegal makes it easier to argue that it's immoral, because many people take cues for their morality from legality, but if you want to keep it illegal you have to maintain the cultural belief in its immorality. Each reinforces the other.
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There is no other economic system.
And "greed" isn't really the problem with capitalism. It's more about the violent deprivation of human needs in order to exploit people for the extreme privilege of a tiny minority. Etc.
There is no other economic system.
If lemmy.ml could read this, they'd be very upset.
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smartphones are one of rhe hundreds o things that would probably be just fine and good if it weren't for capitalism
classic lemmy
