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Amazon Ring Cashes in on Techno-Authoritarianism and Mass Surveillance

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  • Wireguard/tailscale in?

    This is highly unlikely to be able to notify you of someone ringing the door. It's doable, but takes some tinkering which most people are not able to do because of all the reasons mentioned in previous comments.

  • Reolink devices still reach out to a bunch of different servers across the world as soon as you connect them to a network.

    Always isolate an IP doorbell or camera on its own access point or virtual network, where it can't see or interact with other devices on your local network, and then block it from WAN access.

  • So, what are people using to get:

    • good quality streaming
    • doorbell alert
    • motion alerts
    • local and remote access
    • recording storage

    Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.

    i use wyze, been solid for years esp for the price. local SD storage is a huge plus for me and the streaming quality is good and loads insanely fast. i have a handful of blink cameras around the property but never use them anymore bc the interface and UX is so shit

  • Ubiquiti. Cloud gateway max (router + NVR) for $200 with no storage, add your own 2tb nvme, get a ubiquiti doorbell for $300. Little pricy, but simple to setup and all the footage lives locally on the cloud gateway max. No subscription, and you can add more cameras later. The cloud gateway max is an excellent 2.5G router. Slap on a WiFi 7 access point for $200 more and you got yourself a killer home network.

    This is the choice if you want to buy the equipment and it works out of the box. Its cheaper if you want to sort of build your own setup but requires more maintenance and setup.

  • The best thing is you don't need any of that. Just install normal doorbell. We all love gadgets but some of them are just not worth it.

    Hard agree. What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I'm concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.

  • Not too long ago, that statement would have sounded controversial or even crazy. Nowadays though, I’m shocked how much sense it makes to me. Never thought that I would agree with something like that.

    To be honest china is more likely to come to their defense than american police are.

  • So, what are people using to get:

    • good quality streaming
    • doorbell alert
    • motion alerts
    • local and remote access
    • recording storage

    Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.

    Just bought a Reolink rln46 NVR and four cameras. I don’t have the doorbell, but every other feature you requested works flawlessly. It records 24/7 in 4K but can stream at lower resolutions if you want when you’re away from home on mobile. You can set what notifications you receive and when you want to receive them. You can even go back and search for events by type in the recorded video when they were never flagged for notification in the first place.
    I’ve been thoroughly impressed and plan to add to the system in the coming months.

  • I recently adopted a dog who I want to monitor when I'm away from home. So I got a cheap motion tracking in-home camera with cloud storage, and AI identification for people and pets. The AI functions never fucking worked. I already had a Ring camera.

    Did a bit of research after realising the cheapo camera was shit, and went for a eufy stack to replace the Ring doorbell and tbr shitty in-house camera.

    I now have:

    • eufy Video Doorbell
    • eufy HomeBase 3, with an added 1TB of storage
    • eufy IndoorCam C220

    This gives me

    • local storage for both cameras on the HomeBase.
    • the HomeBase also gives you local AI for (individual) person, (general) pet, vehicle, and package identification. I haven't tried the vehicle identification.
    • streaming in the app for both cameras should work in 2k. I have it set to 1080p. It's good enough for me.
    • continuous recording is an option. I have it set to motion alerts because
    • the app gives you motion and doorbell alerts. You can configure how much information you want in the notifications, to prevent video's from passing through eufy's servers.

    While this happened a few years ago, I'd still suggest to block it from accessing the internet/cloud in your firewall nonetheless.

    Even if it's not on eufy's end, there could always be a vulnerability.

  • Just bought a Reolink rln46 NVR and four cameras. I don’t have the doorbell, but every other feature you requested works flawlessly. It records 24/7 in 4K but can stream at lower resolutions if you want when you’re away from home on mobile. You can set what notifications you receive and when you want to receive them. You can even go back and search for events by type in the recorded video when they were never flagged for notification in the first place.
    I’ve been thoroughly impressed and plan to add to the system in the coming months.

    I also use Reolink, including both the NVR and doorbell, and have been very pleased with it.

  • Hard agree. What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I'm concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.

    I think some people also think they need it because they order way too much junk from the internet but it's really just an indication of bad habits. If it's for security a single camera doorbell is definitely not adequate solution either.

  • People who claim they don't value privacy are simply ignorant of how this can affect them. They don't consider the data falling into the wrong hands. Surely they don't want criminals with unauthorized access at least. It should be obvious that governments don't always have their best interests either.

    I mean, you might think that but you underestimate how willing people are to give up their privacy and freedom just to feel safe.

  • So, what are people using to get:

    • good quality streaming
    • doorbell alert
    • motion alerts
    • local and remote access
    • recording storage

    Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.

    Home assistant + frigate has been serving myself and my family on separate sites for about 2 years. It has definitely kicked my ass, but seeing "privacy friendly" reolink cameras constantly phone home on my firewall assured me it was worth it.
    Wireguard tunnel in and you have remote access with practically no security concerns*

  • Hard agree. What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I'm concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.

    What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I'm concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.

    It's not that I don't trust my neighbors, I don't trust anyone outside of those I personally know well.

    Growing up around people who abuse hard drugs tends to destroy the trust you have in those around you after you have your shit stolen repeatedly. Both my wife and I had shit stolen from closed front porches when we were growing up, so I have cameras that watch the sides of my house. But I also built my system from scratch, so I am not worried about third party snooping/reporting.

    Plenty of us have good reasons not to trust those around us. Especially in this day and age of terrorists walking around with state authority.

  • Hard agree. What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I'm concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.

    I don’t have a doorbell of any kind (the button isn’t even hooked up to anything). My neighbours are jerks but they won’t steal packages or anything like that.

    We’re living in a low trust society that used to be a high trust society a few decades ago. I believe all of the problems you see in politics ultimately stem from this. Factionalism is tearing western society apart.

  • So, what are people using to get:

    • good quality streaming
    • doorbell alert
    • motion alerts
    • local and remote access
    • recording storage

    Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.

    Reolink Doorbell ( Firewalled from connecting outside LAN) + Frigate (self hosted)

  • You can run all of that on a Raspberry Pi, without third-party access and surveyllance.

    Yes I did this years ago in 2013, but the problem for my family was accessing the recordings (basically I never set up remote access outside of our LAN)

  • Home assistant + frigate has been serving myself and my family on separate sites for about 2 years. It has definitely kicked my ass, but seeing "privacy friendly" reolink cameras constantly phone home on my firewall assured me it was worth it.
    Wireguard tunnel in and you have remote access with practically no security concerns*

    2nd this configuration. My firewall rules block all external camera traffic and Frigate (once configured) is superb at detecting people without false alerts. All recordings are stored locally. It is disturbing just how much traffic smart devices try to send to China and Amazon, even when not subscribed to cloud services.

    Home Assistant makes everything ridiculously flexible and is configured to turn on camera sirens if someone is detected at night or while my alarm system is armed, and disable sirens and alerts when doors have been opened or the alarm has just been turned off. The open Wireguard ports appear closed to scanners so I'm also reasonably comfortable with network security.

  • No, most don't do it.

    What is the incentive to do this sort of stuff?

  • What? We can't make people read setup manual for 30minutes? Might as well stop living now because whats the point of our society if we are defeated by a pamphlet?

    Always has been and it falls on the ones that aren't defeated by the pamphlet to help the rest, since the labour of the rest allows the standard of life pamphlet interpreters enjoy. 😂

  • Yeah sure, government shall intervene. But...i can probably expect more from anyone else.

    And no,I didn't imply everyone should be expert at everything. That is beyond impossible, even for fractions of fractions of things.
    But. If you wanna drive a car, you're forced to learn a shitton and pay like 2k € to be allowed to do so. One of the reasons is safety for others.

    If I had no clue about e.g. doorbells, I would ask a pro I know or search the net or whatever. At least the absolute basics of it. Even setting the pure curiosity aside, just to know what the heck I'm getting at.
    Admitted, I might have much more spare time than the regular Jane or Joe, but I'd still do that if I had to work. Just less intensive.

    But yes, this mixture of apathy and ignorance is the leading reason why the internet sucks so much nowadays then 30 or even just 20yrs ago.
    The majority of absolutely clueless people not knowing how they get fucked and where to draw a line. Sure, to some it's just a tool they don't need to know shit about to use it. No judging. BUT that doesn't change the fact.

    That's the thing, you correctly see the difference in available time after work. That difference stacks over time. Having read this or that makes you understand terminology, patterns, builds confidence and over time that marginal extra time I have had has made it possible for me to grok a manual in 15 minutes but my father who hasn't had that time takes 45 minutes from his shorter available time. Then there's all the modifying details around kids or no kids, how much more hours the lower parts of the working class have to do to pay rent today vs earlier and so on and so forth. Everyone really but it's just much worse for the lower sections.

    And then there's the problem of availability of products without extensive research. There's few brands owned by few large corpos that spend a lot pushing them left front and center on their digital platforms. That increases significanty the amount of work anyone has to do to avoid surveillance in this case. And as you understand, increasing the amount of work, increases the amount of time, and there's hard cutoffs which lead to the work not being done, which leads to the marketing campaigns succeeding in getting dad to buy a Ring. These people study, research and know well how to get people who seemingly have choices to choose their product 8 out of 10 times. Especially when transacting via their digital platform.

    Which is why we're fighting a losing game if we rely on the individual when they're standing against the corporation which acts as a large collective with collective resources aligned to achieve their goals. This is why individualism is profitable and therefore encouraged. Consumers, employees have to also act as a collective which pools their resources like time, expertise to counteract this. E.g. by having people, supported by the normies, digest, analyse and spit out the results in trivial form (when posaible) that also takes very little time for everyone else to grok, so they make the right decision. Example that come to mind is Consumer Reports.

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    Didn't know it only applied to UWP apps on Windows. That does seem like a pretty big problem then. it is mostly for compatibility reasons. no win32 programs are equipped to handle such granular permissions and sandboxing, they are all made with the assumption that they have access to whatever they need (other than other users' resources and things that require elevation). if Microsoft would have made that limitation to every kind of software, that Windows version would have probably been a failure in popularity because lots of software would have broken. I think S editions of windows is how they tried to go in that direction, with a more drastic way of simply just dropping support for 3rd party win32 programs. I don't still have a Mac readily available to test with but afaik it is any application that uses Apple's packaging format. ok, so if you run linux or windows utils in a compatibility layer, they still have less of a limited access? by which I mean graphical utilities. just tried with firefox, for macos it wanted to give me an .iso file (???) if so, it seems apple is doing roughly the same as microsoft with uwp and the appx format, and linux with flatpak: it's a choice for the user
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