EU age verification app to ban any Android system not licensed by Google
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Please don't link to Reddit. Context below:
The EU is currently developing a whitelabel app to perform privacy-preserving (at least in theory) age verification to be adopted and personalized in the coming months by member states. The app is open source and available here: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui.
Problem is, the app is planning to include remote attestation feature to verify the integrity of the app: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui?tab=readme-ov-file#disclaimer. This is supposed to provide assurance to the age verification service that the app being used is authentic and running on a genuine operating system. Genuine in the case of Android means:
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The operating system was licensed by Google
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The app was downloaded from the Play Store (thus requiring a Google account)
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Device security checks have passed
While there is value to verify device security, this strongly ties the app to many Google properties and services, because those checks won't pass on an aftermarket Android OS, even those which increase security significantly like GrapheneOS, because the app plans to use Google "Play Integrity", which only allows Google licensed systems instead of the standard Android attestation feature to verify systems.
This also means that even though you can compile the app, you won't be able to use it, because it won't come from the Play Store and thus the age verification service will reject it.
The issue has been raised here https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android-wallet-ui/issues/10 but no response from team members as of now.
Wouldnt it be enough to verify through IMEI to make sure the OS isnt emulated?
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It hurt itself in its confusion!
Google Pain Services
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They killed the old net and are in the middle of murdering the new one too.
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The US might have shot itself in the foot by electing Trump, but the EU is really going to shoot itself in the head if that continue in the same trajectory.
TBH, as someone from the US it's both horrifying and somewhat reassuring to know that we're somehow not the worst right now.
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As usual, it's the implementation that matters.
Someone jumped at me for comparing EU and MAGA to Stalin's and Hitler's regimes, quote, "arguing in newspapers whose worker class has been liberated more". Like they are not equal at all and all such.
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EID and equivalents are great for a lot of things, but do you want your porn site to know who you are? The new app is supposed to verify your age but not give out your PII. Not sure eID can do that?
EID can be used for anonymous age verification. It doesn't even need to give out your birthday and can attest to any "over the age of X" requirement.
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TBH, as someone from the US it's both horrifying and somewhat reassuring to know that we're somehow not the worst right now.
Sorry to horrify you but we are definitely worse.
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EID can be used for anonymous age verification. It doesn't even need to give out your birthday and can attest to any "over the age of X" requirement.
Ah, better than what we have in Estonia then
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What is it with everyone being obsessed with porn censorship suddenly? Why is this a trend?
At first I thought it's about control and data gathering, but this seems like too much of a genuine attempt at such a system. Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
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What is it with everyone being obsessed with porn censorship suddenly? Why is this a trend?
At first I thought it's about control and data gathering, but this seems like too much of a genuine attempt at such a system. Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
This has been discussed a while back, at least here in NL as far as I know it started because of legalising online gambling for which you need to be identified. Also, due to GDPR, businesses aren't allowed to make copies of ID's/passports/driving licences any more which is required for certain businesses (notaries, accountants, etc). In my office we currently use some kind of identification software, but it isn't anonyms because well we wouldn't be able to do our job.
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What is it with everyone being obsessed with porn censorship suddenly? Why is this a trend?
At first I thought it's about control and data gathering, but this seems like too much of a genuine attempt at such a system. Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
This is just my speculation, so take it as you will. The EU has been pushing for digital ID cards for quite a while, and this is just another attempt. The last serious attempt was the Covid vaccination passport, but so many people still opted for paper certs, and the rest deleted the app when vaccination was no longer mandatory, that it failed again. So, now the authorities are becoming smart and trying to go through the vector that has a proven record of driving technological change: porn.
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Yeah no. Requiring anything Google for something as basic as this violates the GDPR. If they go through with this, it's one legal case until they have to revise it.
Edit: German eID works on any Android btw., flawless actually. I sure hope I can use that for verification
Edit: German eID works on any Android btw., flawless actually. I sure hope I can use that for verification
Same in Italy... I mean, I can pay taxes with that application but I cannot be verified for my age ? Seriously EU ?
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What is it with everyone being obsessed with porn censorship suddenly? Why is this a trend?
At first I thought it's about control and data gathering, but this seems like too much of a genuine attempt at such a system. Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
Too many bots online
I'd like to know if I'm talking to a real sockpuppet when I'm online :D...but just for that and only share data from my "wallet id" on a strict need to know basis. -
Wouldnt it be enough to verify through IMEI to make sure the OS isnt emulated?
IMEI is PII
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What is it with everyone being obsessed with porn censorship suddenly? Why is this a trend?
At first I thought it's about control and data gathering, but this seems like too much of a genuine attempt at such a system. Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
Why is the government so obsessed with parenting and nannying the citizens?
I think it's because people from outside the traditional political families are getting popular votes.
For the established politicians, blaming "the internet" and building a supressing censorship machine is easier than looking in the mirror and seeing where the discontent comes from.
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IMEI is PII
Is it tied to my real identity?
If not it seems to me that it should be sufficient as to serve as a security this phone is legit and not emulated/compromised. -
So is there a way to apply pressure on the EU to think this through first? Surely they could have different ways that doesn't lock them in to google services.
To avoid people from simply copying the "age proof" and having others reuse it, a nonce/private key combo is needed. To protect that key a DRM style locked down device is necessary. Conveniently removing your ability to know what your device is doing, just a "trust us".
Seeing the EU doesn't make any popular hardware, their plan will always rely on either Asian or US manufacturers implementing the black-box "safety" chip.
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TBH, as someone from the US it's both horrifying and somewhat reassuring to know that we're somehow not the worst right now.
You should read more international news if you think either the EU or US is "the worst place". Somalia for example has been in civil war since the 1980s.
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Fuck the play integrity API, Play Store and Google play services
And the EU for their stupid fucking censorship
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This has been discussed a while back, at least here in NL as far as I know it started because of legalising online gambling for which you need to be identified. Also, due to GDPR, businesses aren't allowed to make copies of ID's/passports/driving licences any more which is required for certain businesses (notaries, accountants, etc). In my office we currently use some kind of identification software, but it isn't anonyms because well we wouldn't be able to do our job.
This sounds like a misunderstanding of gdpr to me?
