Techcrunch reports that AI coding tools have "very negative" gross margins. In other words, they are losing money on every user.
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you're VERY justified in feeling skeptical, I'm seeing it first hand, you're correct.
I'm a consultant/freelancer and I'm booked for the rest of the year and well into the new year with jobs that pretty much consist of me reviewing and cleaning up AI slop.
Most of my clients are startups and small companies that went full in on AI and vibe coding. Now they're discovering that their attempts to save a few bucks by leveraging AI, cutting devs, etc is costing them more that what they envisioned on saving. The stuff they've built with AI doesn't scale, is full of exploits, and breaks quickly. With the recent Tea App thing many of my clients are now in a panic because they essentially did the exact same thing. They don't want their startup to be next in the news because some rando came across their house with the front door left open by AI.
the tech debt is massive, It's costing many of these places more to fix their vibe coders/AI mistakes than what it would have originally cost if they just used a solid dev team. Make no mistake, I'm charging them a good amount also.
All if it could have been avoided though. They could have continued to use their LLM's if they had all just kept a leash on it. if they dismissed the concept of vibe coding. A good chunk of it could have been avoided if the person feeding the prompts simply REVIEWED the code before hitting enter. I'm not kidding, IF they just LOOKED at what was being spat out things would be different. none of them did. they just trusted the AI to be smarter because they were lead to believe it was.
how do you book software work so far out? for some reason my software clients seem to all want their stuff yesterday
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Without social media, you can still be in a bubble, e.g. the bubble of your friends, family, coworkers, just because they don't talk about AI doesnt mean it's not widely used, I work for a large corporation with over 10k employees and the AI adoption is definitely happening, won't go into details
Sure. But ain't a social media bubble. And , that vagary just reinforces my b. S detectors signal.
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A lot of startups whose entire business model relies on OpenAI's small model API calls costing under $1/Mtok, are going to go bust when OpenAI finally runs out of money and ramps the cost up tenfold.
It would be just cheaper to self-host something for the whole company then?
Open-source AIs are there and they are very much competitive with proprietary solutions. -
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Exclusive: The high costs and thin margins threatening AI coding startups
Coding assistant startups are highly unprofitable, says a source familiar with Windsurf financials.
TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)
So much of the AI stuff we see today are boards reacting and worrying about being "left behind" in AI. In many cases, the goal is not to deliver value. The goal is to be able to attach a little sticker that says "AI" to their products to excite the shareholders.
Unfortunately in this case, some of the largest companies in the world haven't been able to figure out how to run AI services at a profit.
This could change any day if some more efficient hardware arrives, but until then, most of the software world is just crossing their fingers it becomes profitable one day while they light dollar bills on fire in their datacenters.
If this isn't "bubbleish" behavior I don't know what is.
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they have no idea if what they're paying is what it actually costs though, so good luck building tools for the future when the resources are artificially priced.
I mean, I agree that a lot of money was spent training some of these models - and I personally wouldn't invest in an ai based company. The economics dont make sense.
However, worst case, self hosted open source models have got pretty good, and I find it unlikely that progress will simply stop. Diminishing returns from scaling data yes, but there will still be optimizations all through the pipeline.
That is to say, LLMs will continue to have utility regardless if Open AI and Anthropic are around long term.
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I'm skeptical of AI coding as it exists today, and while I'm bullish on long-term prospects for AI writing software, am very dubious that simply using LLMs is going to be the answer.
However.
Startups typically do lose money. They'll burn money as they acquire a userbase --- their growth phase --- and transition to profitability later. I don't think "startups in area X tend to be losing money" is terribly surprising.
Ok, but it isn't just startups burning money here like there's no tomorrow - it's also major industry leaders (Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Google, Nvidia, etc.) dumping hundreds of billions into infrastructure and development of a tech that has, so far, shown 0 positive returns for anyone and everyone. Everyone involved is pouring in money like it's going out of style, largely because they see this as a potential pathway to infinite profits down the line, just as long as THEY are the ones to get there first; consequences be damned. WHEN this bubble pops, not IF, it'll be messy. Extremely messy.
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Exclusive: The high costs and thin margins threatening AI coding startups
Coding assistant startups are highly unprofitable, says a source familiar with Windsurf financials.
TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)
Now I'm suddenly tempted to start using it. or at least coming up with a bot to keep it busy.
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Selling grain for coal, coal for iron and iron for paper is capitalism, but not a bubble.
Whether it becomes a normal thing depends on the cost.
That's not capitalism, that's a market.
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It would be just cheaper to self-host something for the whole company then?
Open-source AIs are there and they are very much competitive with proprietary solutions.If you want OpenAI level response times you might be surprised how expensive self-hosting gets.
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I didn't say they couldn't be resold, they simply won't have as wide a potential user market like an generic GPU would. But think about it for a sec, you've got thousands of AI dedicated gpu's going stale whenever a datacenter gets overhauled or a datacenter goes bust.
that's gonna put a lot more product on the market that other datacenters aren't going to touch - no one puts used hardware in their racks - so who's gonna gobble up all this stuff?
not the gamers. who else needs this kind of stuff?
no one important puts used hardware in their racks
FTFY. Just about every msp I've worked for has cut corners and went with 2nd hand (or possibly grey market) hardware to save a buck, including the ones who colo in "real" data centers. I would not be surprised to find that we're onboarding these kinds of cards to make a bespoke AI platform for our software customers here in a few years.
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Exclusive: The high costs and thin margins threatening AI coding startups
Coding assistant startups are highly unprofitable, says a source familiar with Windsurf financials.
TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)
Yes, this is part of the business model. The goal is to get everyone addicted to their service, then jack the price up to profitable margins. It's the same model Netflix and Amazon used. Bothe services lost money for over 10 years before becoming profitable.
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I can't name anyone in the company I work for thats had llms revolutionize their job
I’m jealous, my director at a software company has a second laptop just for AI so he doesn’t have to deal with IT and is insistent on using it for every project. One of his annual goals is 100% of his division using AI at least once per day. For every person against AI, there is another who can’t get enough.
The stupid are easily addicted.
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The 'cloud' was a pretty big thing though... everyone used to self host, now only some self host.
AWS, GCP, Azure make a lot of money
But it wasn't new anything new. The "cloud" services were literally the internet, just made a little easier for stupid people. Just like this llm shit isn't really new. The paid off media wants idiots to think its revolutionary but its not. Its a chatbot that sometimes gets stuff right.
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Now I'm suddenly tempted to start using it. or at least coming up with a bot to keep it busy.
Holy crap, has anyone ever attempted to create an "AI fork bomb"? Go to one of these agent bots, and tell it to create accounts with the other agent code bots. These new accounts will all be told to create accounts on all the other code bots services. And do this recursively forever. So the flow would be 1 bot makes lets say 5 bots. Each of those 5 bots make 5 more bots. And each of those 5 bots make 5 more. So the total number of running bots becomes like 1 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5...
Obligatory, this is purely hypothetical, and you should never do this for legal reasons.
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Yes, this is part of the business model. The goal is to get everyone addicted to their service, then jack the price up to profitable margins. It's the same model Netflix and Amazon used. Bothe services lost money for over 10 years before becoming profitable.
Venture capitalism is what it's called, I think
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Current gen models got less accurate and hallucinated at a higher rate compared to the last ones, from experience and from openai. I think it's either because they're trying to see how far they can squeeze the models, or because it's starting to eat its own slop found while crawling.
https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/2221c875-02dc-4789-800b-e7758f3722c1/o3-and-o4-mini-system-card.pdf
Those are previous gen models, here are the current gen models: https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/8124a3ce-ab78-4f06-96eb-49ea29ffb52f/gpt5-system-card-aug7.pdf#page10
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Holy crap, has anyone ever attempted to create an "AI fork bomb"? Go to one of these agent bots, and tell it to create accounts with the other agent code bots. These new accounts will all be told to create accounts on all the other code bots services. And do this recursively forever. So the flow would be 1 bot makes lets say 5 bots. Each of those 5 bots make 5 more bots. And each of those 5 bots make 5 more. So the total number of running bots becomes like 1 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5...
Obligatory, this is purely hypothetical, and you should never do this for legal reasons.
Sounds like a great idea, although no, commoners are not given the same privileges as capitalists. So I'm afraid there will be problems indeed.
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Exclusive: The high costs and thin margins threatening AI coding startups
Coding assistant startups are highly unprofitable, says a source familiar with Windsurf financials.
TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)
Caveat: this applies to literally every new technology especially in the VC funded world.
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how do you book software work so far out? for some reason my software clients seem to all want their stuff yesterday
I've been doing it for like 20+ years now so I have a very solid client base and very solid referrals. All my new clients now are referred to me by previous/existing clients so it gives me the luxury of booking well in advance.
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AI Is A Money Trap
In the last week, we’ve had no less than three different pieces asking whether the massive proliferation of data centers is a massive bubble, and though they, at times, seem to take the default position of AI’s inevitable value, they’ve begun to sour on the idea that
Ed Zitron's Where's Your Ed At (www.wheresyoured.at)
Damn. We're looking at another recession when this bubble bursts, aren't we?
Just great.