Tesla loses Autopilot wrongful death case in $329 million verdict
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This isn't really something you can be 'too cautious' about.
Hopefully we can at least agree that as of right now, they're not being cautious enough.
As an exercise to remove the bias from this, replace self driving cars with airbags. In some rare cases they might go off accidentally and do harm that wouldn't have occurred in their absence. But all cars have airbags. More and more with every generation. If you are so cautious about accidental detonations that you choose not to install them in your car, then you're being too cautious.
I can't agree that they're not being cautious enough. I didn't even read the article. I'm just arguing about the principle. And I don't have a clue what the right penalty would be. I would need to be an actuary with access to lots of data I don't have to figure out the right number to provide the right deterrent.
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Fuck that I'm not a beta tester for a company. What happened to having a good product and then releasing it. Not oh let's see what happens.
It's not that simple. Imagine you're dying of a rare terminal disease. A pharma company is developing a new drug for it. Obviously you want it. But they tell you you can't have it because "we're not releasing it until we know it's good".
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A representative for Tesla sent Ars the following statement: "Today's verdict is wrong and only works to set back automotive safety and jeopardize Tesla's and the entire industry's efforts to develop and implement life-saving technology. We plan to appeal given the substantial errors of law and irregularities at trial. Even though this jury found that the driver was overwhelmingly responsible for this tragic accident in 2019, the evidence has always shown that this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road. To be clear, no car in 2019, and none today, would have prevented this crash. This was never about Autopilot; it was a fiction concocted by plaintiffs’ lawyers blaming the car when the driver—from day one—admitted and accepted responsibility."
So, you admit that the company’s marketing has continued to lie for the past six years?
There’s no way this decision stands, it’s absolutely absurd. The guy dropped his phone and was looking down reaching around looking for it when he crashed. He wasn’t supervising autopilot, like you are required to.
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Life saving technology, BS, their auto pilot is half-ass.
Have you even read what happened? The driver dropped his phone and wasn’t watching the road but instead was rummaging around on the ground looking for his phone, while having his foot on the accelerator manually accelerating. Autopilot was supposedly turned off because of the manual acceleration.
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Yeah, but I think Elon shares the blame for making outrageous claims for years suggesting otherwise. He's a liar and needs to be held accountable.
What claims did he make about autopilot that suggested otherwise?
Autopilot is not FSD.
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Today’s verdict is wrong and only works to set back automotive safety and jeopardize Tesla’s and the entire industry’s efforts to develop and implement life-saving technology.
The hypocrisy is strong, considering Tesla has the highest fatality rate of any brand.
Source please?
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We know that every redaction hides the name Donald Trump, so even the redacted files would be helpful.
Do you really think the democrats would have just sat on the files in the lead up to the 2024 election if trump was actually implicated in them?
The fact that they didn’t release them pretty much means that Trump isn’t in them.
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You mention other cars overriding your input. The most common is the auto breaking when it sees you are going to hit something. But my understanding is that it kicks in when it is already too late to avoid the crash. So it isn't something that is involved in decision making about driving, it is just a saftey feature only relevant in the case of a crash. Just like you don't ram another car because you have a seatbelt, your driving choices aren't affected by this features presence.
The other common one will try to remind you to stay in your lane. But it isn't trying to override you. It rumbles the wheel and turns it a bit in the direction you should go. If you resist at all it stops. It is only meant for if you have let go of the wheel or are asleep.
So I don't know of anything that overrides driver input completely outside of being too late to avoid a crash.Some cars brake for you as soon as they think you're going to crash (if you have your foot on the accelerator, or even on the brake if the car doesn't believe you'll be able to stop in time). Fords especially will do this, usually in relation to adaptive cruise control, and reverse brake assist. You can turn that setting off, I believe but it is meant to prevent a crash, or collision. In fact, Ford's Bluecruise assisted driving feature was phantom braking to the point there was a recall about it because it was braking with nothing obstructing the road. I believe they also just updated it so that the accelerator press will override the bluecruise without disengaging it in like the 1.5 update which happened this year.
But I was thinking you were correcting me about autopilot for planes and I was confused.
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What claims did he make about autopilot that suggested otherwise?
Autopilot is not FSD.
https://electrek.co/2016/07/05/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-save-life/
https://electrek.co/2018/04/13/tesla-autopilot-never-perfect-10x-safer-than-human-elon-musk/
Considering Elon's been using the two interchangeably, and that autopilot gives the lay person a false equivalence to what actual pilots use in planes. Can you really blame them?
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A representative for Tesla sent Ars the following statement: "Today's verdict is wrong and only works to set back automotive safety and jeopardize Tesla's and the entire industry's efforts to develop and implement life-saving technology. We plan to appeal given the substantial errors of law and irregularities at trial. Even though this jury found that the driver was overwhelmingly responsible for this tragic accident in 2019, the evidence has always shown that this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road. To be clear, no car in 2019, and none today, would have prevented this crash. This was never about Autopilot; it was a fiction concocted by plaintiffs’ lawyers blaming the car when the driver—from day one—admitted and accepted responsibility."
So, you admit that the company’s marketing has continued to lie for the past six years?
Whether or not its the guys fault I'm just glad Elon is losing money.
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What claims did he make about autopilot that suggested otherwise?
Autopilot is not FSD.
Like everything he has ever said about it? lol wtf is this comment.
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https://electrek.co/2016/07/05/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-save-life/
https://electrek.co/2018/04/13/tesla-autopilot-never-perfect-10x-safer-than-human-elon-musk/
Considering Elon's been using the two interchangeably, and that autopilot gives the lay person a false equivalence to what actual pilots use in planes. Can you really blame them?
Thanks for responding to this with links so that I didn't have to.
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Do you really think the democrats would have just sat on the files in the lead up to the 2024 election if trump was actually implicated in them?
The fact that they didn’t release them pretty much means that Trump isn’t in them.
Lol. They're all in them, that's their problem. Dems and Cons are all in them. Trump was a Dem at the time. People forget.
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Yeah, but I think Elon shares the blame for making outrageous claims for years suggesting otherwise. He's a liar and needs to be held accountable.
Absolutely. I hope he and the company burn in hell, but I do not want to start giving drivers who kill people a free pass to say "well, it was the car's fault!"
"Autopilot", especially in Tesla cars, is beta software at best, and this feature should never have been allowed to be used on public roads. In that sense, the transportation ministry that's allowed it also has blood on their hands.
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Have you even read what happened? The driver dropped his phone and wasn’t watching the road but instead was rummaging around on the ground looking for his phone, while having his foot on the accelerator manually accelerating. Autopilot was supposedly turned off because of the manual acceleration.
Except Autopilot is supposed to disengage when hands are taken off the steering wheel - it failed.
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Well, if only Tesla hadn't invested tens of millions into marketing campaigns trying to paint autopilot as a fully self driving, autonomous system. Everyone knows that 9 out of 10 consumers don't read the fine print, ever. They buy, and use shit off of vibes. False marketing can and does kill.
I will repeat, regardless of what the (erroneous) claims are by Tesla, a driver is still responsible.
This is like those automated bill payment systems. Sure, they are automated, and the company promotes it as "easy" and "convenient", but you're still responsible if those bills don't get paid for whatever reason.
From another report:
While driving, McGee dropped his mobile phone that he was using and scrambled to pick it up. He said during the trial that he believed Enhanced Autopilot would brake if an obstacle was in the way. His Model S accelerated through an intersection at just over 60 miles per hour, hitting a nearby empty parked car and its owners, who were standing on the other side of their vehicle.
Isn't using a phone while being the driver of a vehicle illegal? And what the hell is was up with highway speeds near an intersection??? This dude can blame autopilot, but goddamn, he was completely negligent. It's like there were two idiots driving the same vehicle that day.
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Good that the car manufacturer is also being held accountable.
But...
In 2019, George McGee was operating his Tesla Model S using Autopilot when he ran past a stop sign and through an intersection at 62 mph then struck a pair of people stargazing by the side of the road. Naibel Benavides was killed and her partner Dillon Angulo was left with a severe head injury.
That's on him. 100%
McGee told the court that he thought Autopilot "would assist me should I have a failure or should I miss something, should I make a mistake,"
Stop giving stupid people the ability to control large, heavy vehicles! Autopilot is not a babysitter, it's supposed to be an assistive technology, like cruise control. This fucking guy gave Tesla the wheel, and that was a choice!
You're missing the point. Calling a driving assistant an autopilot is the problem here. If a company is allowed to sell a vehicle, and it says it has autopilot, it would be reasonable to assume that it does and that it works properly - unless you have a basic understanding how car "autopilots" are implemented, which is more than you can expect from a layman.
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Have you even read what happened? The driver dropped his phone and wasn’t watching the road but instead was rummaging around on the ground looking for his phone, while having his foot on the accelerator manually accelerating. Autopilot was supposedly turned off because of the manual acceleration.
That text you italicized so proudly, is what Tesla CLAIMS happened. Did you know Tesla repeatedly told the court that they did not have the video and data that had been captured seconds before the crash, until a forensics expert hired by the PLAINTIFFS found the data, showing Tesla had it the entire time?
Gee, why would Tesla try to hide that data if it showed the driver engaged the accelerator? Why did the plaintiffs have to go to extreme efforts to get that data?
A jury of 12 saw that evidence, you didn't, but you believe Elon the habitual liar so hey, keep on glazin'.
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Source please?
It's a very well known fact, but OK here you go:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/01/11/tesla-fatality-rates/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2025/02/11/tesla-again-has-the-highest-accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/ -
Good that the car manufacturer is also being held accountable.
But...
In 2019, George McGee was operating his Tesla Model S using Autopilot when he ran past a stop sign and through an intersection at 62 mph then struck a pair of people stargazing by the side of the road. Naibel Benavides was killed and her partner Dillon Angulo was left with a severe head injury.
That's on him. 100%
McGee told the court that he thought Autopilot "would assist me should I have a failure or should I miss something, should I make a mistake,"
Stop giving stupid people the ability to control large, heavy vehicles! Autopilot is not a babysitter, it's supposed to be an assistive technology, like cruise control. This fucking guy gave Tesla the wheel, and that was a choice!
I dig blaming the people who wind up believing deceptive marketing practices, instead of blaming the people doing the deceiving.
Look up the dictionary definition of autopilot: a mechanical, electrical or hydraulic system used to guide a vehicle without assistance from a human being. FULL SELF DRIVING, yeah, why would that wording lead people to believe the car was, you know, fully self-driving?
Combine that with year after year of Elon Musk constantly stating in public that the car either already drives itself, or will be capable of doing so just around the corner, by the end of next year, over and over and over and
Elon lied constantly to keep the stock price up, and people have died for believing those lies.
