The Trump Administration is Building a National Citizenship Data System; State and county election officials can now check the citizenship status of their entire voter lists.
Technology
53
Beiträge
42
Kommentatoren
0
Aufrufe
-
Where I live we have something called the electoral roll, which is a nationwide database of registered voters.
It's weird the states don't also have this already.
Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a legitimate implementation of such a system. It will absolutely be intentionally flawed in ways that allow the disenfranchisement of millions of Americans citizens. That's 100% what always happens with Republican initiatives to "protect" elections. It will be made trivial to "accidentally" remove legitimate voter registrations, and a labyrinthian bureaucratic process to correct them.
-
Same fucking way americans correct issues with SSA, DHS, and the IRS: paperwork. Come the fuck on with this slippery slope bullshit. Ever had a job? The I-9 employment authorization paperwork... just shut up
Slippery slope? It's literally been done. Voter roles purged too close to an election to be able to vote. The complaint here is that this database makes it too easy to do what they've already done a bunch of times.
You can be snarky, or you can be ignorant. It's a bad look to be both.
-
See the UK Post Office accounting scandal, in which a persistent computer error went unfixed for decades and caused hundreds of post office employees to be fired and dragged through courts for corruption that never happened. A good chunk of them committed suicide.
The database is the least important part of the system: the organizational structure, rules, and procedures are way more important, because they actively help or harm people.
The database is the backbone of them being able to hurt or harm so I'd say it's pretty important. Here's the other problem though. The federal government under Trump is having a really difficult time protecting the personal identifiable information of the citizens. Not only have they allowed private companies to access that data (palantir etc), but they are also having a lot of difficulties with cyber attacks. Part of the reason those cyber attacks haven't been as effective as they could be is because the data isn't localized in one place. Now that's exactly what they're trying to do with this.
-
I'm fairly sure we already do, but they are administered state by state, and not centralized.
Yeah, it is called voter rolls.
-
Person from outside the US here. Please explain me why this is a problem?
In the EU only citizens can vote in national elections, for local elections non-citizens can vote only if they are residents.
You already can’t vote if you’re not a citizen. There are voter rolls and you get checked off when you go vote.
This almost certainly will be used to deport people without going through due process.
-
I would imagine it's based on social security numbers.
So it's credit score based?
-
The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
So if you vote against him, you lose citizenship and he gets 100% of the votes?
-
Same fucking way americans correct issues with SSA, DHS, and the IRS: paperwork. Come the fuck on with this slippery slope bullshit. Ever had a job? The I-9 employment authorization paperwork... just shut up
Looking for ways the system can be abused and addressing those loopholes is basic risk assessment, so
just shut up
I strongly suggest taking a heaping helping of your own advice, mate.
-
See the UK Post Office accounting scandal, in which a persistent computer error went unfixed for decades and caused hundreds of post office employees to be fired and dragged through courts for corruption that never happened. A good chunk of them committed suicide.
The database is the least important part of the system: the organizational structure, rules, and procedures are way more important, because they actively help or harm people.
That's a really weird way of looking at it. Without the database, there's no central ledger to consult as to whether or not you're legally a person. Like @atrielienz@lemmy.world said:
The database is the backbone of them being able to hurt or harm
Without that starting point, "the organizational structure, rules, and procedures" that rely on the data from the database are impotent.
-
The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
There is no evidence of voter fraud from people who actually vote. This is blatant government overreach to secure illegitimate votes, "if they're in the system, then they can vote."
This system will only lead to inflation of "bot" or fake identities to inflate voter numbers for any particular candidate polling.
-
Person from outside the US here. Please explain me why this is a problem?
In the EU only citizens can vote in national elections, for local elections non-citizens can vote only if they are residents.
It's not a problem. It's fair to assume anything the Trump administration does is nefarious.
-
The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
The posts on this thread are evidence that people don't actually care about the policies; if there is an oompa loompa behind it, it must be bad.
Almost every move the current US administration has done to cut red tape has been utterly stupid. This one actually makes sense. Having a separate citizenship database for every state is just silly.
-
That's a really weird way of looking at it. Without the database, there's no central ledger to consult as to whether or not you're legally a person. Like @atrielienz@lemmy.world said:
The database is the backbone of them being able to hurt or harm
Without that starting point, "the organizational structure, rules, and procedures" that rely on the data from the database are impotent.
That's a really weird way of looking at it.
That's how I roll.
Without the database, there's no central ledger to consult as to whether or not you're legally a person.
We're already seeing them do that without a database.
️Other countries are able to maintain internal databases without using them to screw over their own citizens (except when they do). The problem isn't the database.
-
Yes I think you missed the point.
If you are purged you can't vote. That becomes a problem on election day.
You might get a feel-good provisional ballot but no real way to track that it got counted.
This is what happened last year, except by a bunch of randos claiming that so-and-so wasn't a legal voter, with no proof or recourse.
So now they can just check against RNC registered voters and "disable" 10% of people who aren't registered RNC and no way to prove or possibly even know until after the election passes.
No thanks.
Not to mention they could run this against the voter rolls, so you show as eligible if you check your registration status, but have your ballot tossed (or get turned around at the polling place) because you're not on this other database.
It's fascinating to see this find new pastures in the new world. As a proud Russian citizen.
Some day you'll remember with nostalgie those years of the ruling party actually caring to win elections.
Jokes aside, it's easier to cheat now because it's easier to do everything, and that's because of the Internet and modern computing systems.
You can't unmince minced meat back.
But you can apply the same change in a different direction and see that today direct non-anonymous democracy is actually plausible, if it's instituted, for big countries. 100 years ago it simply wasn't possible. Now it is.
Or that today Soviet system (as in Soviet democracy and not totalitarian state capitalism) is actually possible to build. When they were trying, they couldn't, they didn't possess the means.
And that both these things are actually what these people have done to us, but inverted. Our "direct vote" is the data they collect about us to classify and predict us for control. Our "Soviets" are that classification, and our "central planning" is those predictions and control.
They've done all this, just directed for their own interest. So maybe one can do the opposite.
-
The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
I see nothing wrong with making sure people who vote are citizens, what I object to is kicking actual citizens off the voting roles because they're not Republicans.
-
I see nothing wrong with making sure people who vote are citizens, what I object to is kicking actual citizens off the voting roles because they're not Republicans.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with this proposal, however, if we know one thing about this regime, it's that they will use anything as a political tool for their advantage. So, it's very likely that Trump uses this project as an avenue to revoke the citizenship of his perceived political enemies.
It's probably a good idea to get a passport issued before this gets started so it's at least a little bit harder for them to claim you aren't a citizen. -
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with this proposal, however, if we know one thing about this regime, it's that they will use anything as a political tool for their advantage. So, it's very likely that Trump uses this project as an avenue to revoke the citizenship of his perceived political enemies.
It's probably a good idea to get a passport issued before this gets started so it's at least a little bit harder for them to claim you aren't a citizen.Not saying it's unreasonable to err on the side of caution in opposing anything Trump does, but the move to end birthright citizenship is aimed at the automatic citizenship granted to anyone born on US soil, and anyone born anywhere with at least one American parent. The goal is to suppress non-white voting by invalidating citizenships for people MAGA considers "foreigners". Most Americans were born in America to American-born parents, and have nothing to worry about unless MAGA tries to redefine citizenship at the Constitution level.
-
The Trump administration has, for the first time ever, built a searchable national citizenship data system.
The tool, which is being rolled out in phases, is designed to be used by state and local election officials to give them an easier way to ensure only citizens are voting. But it was developed rapidly without a public process, and some of those officials are already worrying about what else it could be used for.
NPR is the first news organization to report the details of the new system.
For decades, voting officials have noted that there was no national citizenship list to compare their state lists to, so to verify citizenship for their voters, they either needed to ask people to provide a birth certificate or a passport — something that could disenfranchise millions — or use a complex patchwork of disparate data sources.
Why this is unneeded
Citizenship is already required to vote in state and federal elections. Every state currently maintains its own voter rolls. These voter rolls are administered at the state level and how citizenship is proved occurs according to state laws.
Why this is bad
This database represents a breach of state autonomy to administer their elections.
Some localities do not require citizenship to vote. This database could disenfranchise voters in those localities.
This represents a huge target for hackers, and given that every municipality will have access to it, there are a lot of potential ways in which it could be compromised or manipulated.
The federal government is rife with inaccurate information, and is often understaffed to address the issue. These issues can and will disenfranchise voters. States and municipalities are better equipped to handle their voter rolls.How this will be abused
This database will be used to both verify citizenship, and for election officials to upload who is registered to vote in a given electoral area. This will lead to its usage to disqualify people who are registered in multiple areas. If - 31 days before an election, someone uploads a list of conservative or liberal voters from a purple area such as Florida or Ohio to the rolls of another state using hacked credentials, then it’s very possible those people will be disqualified from voting and may not know until they try to cast their ballot - shifting the balance of the election.
With the Supreme Court recently discarding birthright citizenship without clarifying who qualifies for citizenship, a sufficiently malicious actor could ensnarl the electoral and legal system with arbitrary claims that people’s parents were not U.S. citizens.
Invariably, the data from this will be used to stalk hapless people — either by electoral workers, or by anyone, once it has been hacked.
And, speculatively - what happens if the scope of this morphs to a ‘voter eligibility’ database, where it tries to ascertain if someone is eligible to vote on additional criterion, such as criminal history? Will it be plagued with errors, such as not registering expunged records, or applying one state’s laws to another? -
Person from outside the US here. Please explain me why this is a problem?
In the EU only citizens can vote in national elections, for local elections non-citizens can vote only if they are residents.
With everything he does the issue is the implementation. Deport criminal aliens? I'm all for it, but most of the deportees have no criminal record or they accuse them of crimes as if it's the same thing as a conviction.
Part of Trump's grand plan is to make federal elections span only a single day. So maybe you check your status the day before and everything is fine, but the day of voting a glitch in the system says it can't verify your citizenship. That's it! No votes for you this year!
-
Why this is unneeded
Citizenship is already required to vote in state and federal elections. Every state currently maintains its own voter rolls. These voter rolls are administered at the state level and how citizenship is proved occurs according to state laws.
Why this is bad
This database represents a breach of state autonomy to administer their elections.
Some localities do not require citizenship to vote. This database could disenfranchise voters in those localities.
This represents a huge target for hackers, and given that every municipality will have access to it, there are a lot of potential ways in which it could be compromised or manipulated.
The federal government is rife with inaccurate information, and is often understaffed to address the issue. These issues can and will disenfranchise voters. States and municipalities are better equipped to handle their voter rolls.How this will be abused
This database will be used to both verify citizenship, and for election officials to upload who is registered to vote in a given electoral area. This will lead to its usage to disqualify people who are registered in multiple areas. If - 31 days before an election, someone uploads a list of conservative or liberal voters from a purple area such as Florida or Ohio to the rolls of another state using hacked credentials, then it’s very possible those people will be disqualified from voting and may not know until they try to cast their ballot - shifting the balance of the election.
With the Supreme Court recently discarding birthright citizenship without clarifying who qualifies for citizenship, a sufficiently malicious actor could ensnarl the electoral and legal system with arbitrary claims that people’s parents were not U.S. citizens.
Invariably, the data from this will be used to stalk hapless people — either by electoral workers, or by anyone, once it has been hacked.
And, speculatively - what happens if the scope of this morphs to a ‘voter eligibility’ database, where it tries to ascertain if someone is eligible to vote on additional criterion, such as criminal history? Will it be plagued with errors, such as not registering expunged records, or applying one state’s laws to another?Citizenship is already required to vote in state [...] elections.
This is incorrect. The law you think you're referencing by this is only applicable to Federal positions. Several states explicitly allow non-citizen voting in local elections. Many have no laws on the books at all addressing it. Only 15 states explicitly prohibit non-citizen voting for local positions.
Laws permitting noncitizens to vote in the United States
Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
Ballotpedia (ballotpedia.org)
This fact alone should mandate that the federal level maintains their own registrations. The State and Federal levels have different applicable voter rolls because the state doesn't have the same requirements as the federal elections.
Edit: Wrong word.
