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  3. Why is the manosphere on the rise? UN Women sounds the alarm over online misogyny

Why is the manosphere on the rise? UN Women sounds the alarm over online misogyny

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  • M malek061@lemmy.world

    There no way Andrew Tate is cool at a party.

    P This user is from outside of this forum
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    pulsewidth@lemmy.world
    schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
    #316

    Kids in my daughters class did a project about 'an issue that is important to you'. They could pick anything.

    Most of the kids talked about interesting and positive fields like environmental protection/space exploitation or some sport they love to participate in. Three of the boys chose to talk about 'men's rights', and according to the teacher who I spoke to about it afterwards they were echoing Andrew Tate shit.

    They were 10 years old at the time.

    None of their parents are divorced either, so theres no 'woe story' from dad in the background to put any framing around this.

    However, their parents are all conservative and all let their kids access Youtube with no oversight. So social media and lax/indifferent parenting are very much grooming the next generation into hateful misogynists like Tate.

    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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    • P pro@programming.dev

      A growing network of online communities known collectively as the “manosphere” is emerging as a serious threat to gender equality, as toxic digital spaces increasingly influence real-world attitudes, behaviours, and policies, the UN agency dedicated to ending gender discrimination has warned.

      D This user is from outside of this forum
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      darohan@lemmy.zip
      schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
      #317

      Pretty sure I've commented this on Lemmy before, but I'm gonna drop a link to this Struthless video again because I think it's pretty good at getting the point and really reflected my experience as someone who was once a "young man on the internet", too.

      B 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
      5
      • P pro@programming.dev

        A growing network of online communities known collectively as the “manosphere” is emerging as a serious threat to gender equality, as toxic digital spaces increasingly influence real-world attitudes, behaviours, and policies, the UN agency dedicated to ending gender discrimination has warned.

        K This user is from outside of this forum
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        keenflame@feddit.nu
        schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
        #318

        Because they are being completely alienated. The hater haters are also on the rise. Those have even more troubled minds and it's the same on and on until the bottom. It's very easy to reach out to these young males, and fix them. But instead whine. They are straight up looking for role models and only dickheads speak their language. Like.. Tell a lost male to "man up" instead of expecting young males to have feelings is kinda dumb. It's been happening in history over and over. It's just on the rise to then start to wane to then rise again slightly lower the next time when people forget about caring for young males again. They aren't easy so I get it but Jesus with the influencer dicks becoming their fathers.. It's so pathetic

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        • M malek061@lemmy.world

          Wat?

          The manosphere is literally a bunch of losers that can't get laid and are making excuses for it.

          Work out. Have a career. Don't be a asshole. Do that and you can get laid but that's too hard for some folks.

          K This user is from outside of this forum
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          keenflame@feddit.nu
          schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
          #319

          Fuck you. Losers that can't be laid. Yes. When they are constantly told to man up and get girls.. Where do you think they go? Wtf is wrong with you. You replied to this with exactly the lack of equipment to handle the manosphere they were talking about. Without compassion you are even worse as you ruin your and others chance to fix it. Hateful and completely useless to say these things. You really think the kids think "I'm gonna be an asshole" for no reason? It takes time to be brain washed by the pick up artists. It just speaks to them

          M zdl@lazysoci.alZ 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
          2
          • M malek061@lemmy.world

            There no way Andrew Tate is cool at a party.

            K This user is from outside of this forum
            K This user is from outside of this forum
            keenflame@feddit.nu
            schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
            #320

            No only in a podcast of his environment with slave girls that are punished if they don't agree

            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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            • B blarghly@lemmy.world

              You are making an excellent point right up until your last paragraph. What 15 year old boy wants to be Mr Fucking Rogers? Sure, maybe they want to be him in like 40 years (but only the version of him who was secretly a marine sniper covered in tattoos everywhere his sweaters hid). What does a 15 year old boy who is vulnerable to the manosphere want? He wants to get paid and get laid.

              Trying to shove a 15 year old's raging hormones and desire for rebellion and independence into a Mr Rogers box will only lead to... more rebellion. Give the kids role models who are good people, who also succeed at things they care about.

              K This user is from outside of this forum
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              keenflame@feddit.nu
              schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
              #321

              I don't understand how you think they would not want to be Mr Rodgers? It's not in their biology. They look for role models and only grifters pretend to know how to get girls. It's so idiotic. Mr Rodgers gets girls. If they only understood that truth they would flock to imitate him

              1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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              • ladybutterfly@lemmy.worldL ladybutterfly@lemmy.world

                Men are often failed, that's totally true. They're also harmed by patriarchy eg being told to "man up" leading to them not seeing a doctor, work on themselves etc.

                Ive read up on this and I'm a DA outreach worker so I have experience. A common theme with the Manosphere is blame shifting, and refusing to take action on their issues. Their mindset is wrong, and they don't help themselves.

                K This user is from outside of this forum
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                keenflame@feddit.nu
                schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                #322

                Yes and also that men are evil. Literally that they feel excluded and scared to participate because of their gender. They don't dare talk to girls. Because of the other assholes that ruined it. They are told it's what women like. It's not true. But these are the ones being caught in the net. Not the asshole, but the timid ones.

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                • B barsoap@lemm.ee

                  Let's try this again: If, as you say "women do empathy, men do resilience", then why should childcare be 70:30? Why not 50:50 so the kids get taught empathy and resilience in equal measure? Also, how can you even be empathetic if you lack in the resilience department.

                  F This user is from outside of this forum
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                  fedditor385@lemmy.world
                  schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                  #323

                  Because more women than men want to be in daycare, it's unrealistic to expect the same amount of men want to be in daycase as women. And the gender ratio of employees doesn't mean thats also the ratio of what kids will take away from this. Does this mean that in daycare without any men the kids have only 50% of the care they need? Of course not.

                  Again, ONE DOESNT EXCLUDE THE OTHER. Everyone has empathy and resilience, but so far in general women tend to be better at empathy and men in resilience. Why force one to do both, when both can thrive in what they do better?

                  B 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • B blarghly@lemmy.world

                    You are making an excellent point right up until your last paragraph. What 15 year old boy wants to be Mr Fucking Rogers? Sure, maybe they want to be him in like 40 years (but only the version of him who was secretly a marine sniper covered in tattoos everywhere his sweaters hid). What does a 15 year old boy who is vulnerable to the manosphere want? He wants to get paid and get laid.

                    Trying to shove a 15 year old's raging hormones and desire for rebellion and independence into a Mr Rogers box will only lead to... more rebellion. Give the kids role models who are good people, who also succeed at things they care about.

                    T This user is from outside of this forum
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                    taleya@aussie.zone
                    schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                    #324

                    You do realise that the behaviour you're describing is largely programmed, yes?

                    Apart from the urge to blow loads everywhere

                    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                    • K keenflame@feddit.nu

                      Fuck you. Losers that can't be laid. Yes. When they are constantly told to man up and get girls.. Where do you think they go? Wtf is wrong with you. You replied to this with exactly the lack of equipment to handle the manosphere they were talking about. Without compassion you are even worse as you ruin your and others chance to fix it. Hateful and completely useless to say these things. You really think the kids think "I'm gonna be an asshole" for no reason? It takes time to be brain washed by the pick up artists. It just speaks to them

                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      malek061@lemmy.world
                      schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                      #325

                      They are losers for not following positive role models in their lives like coaches, older siblings, and teachers. They follow the youtube algorithm shoved down their throats.

                      I do feel bad because there is no job market for young men and women that pays anything.

                      And yes, having having coached little league ball for decades, kids will be assholes for no reason.

                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • B barsoap@lemm.ee

                        You are completely overthinking it. I readily acknowledged it is reductive. And my example was an example, a vibe. I do not, in fact, fish. Nor consider desert dwellers to be less masculine or something.

                        A typical male experience in a hetero relationship is that women are overly fussy over many things, I think most of it is culture (a generalised fear of a catty mother in law not considering you good enough for her son causing a fear of losing your partner because he might listen to her instead of you) so when we hear "men are simple" we don't hear "men are stupid" but "finally, someone who understands the pointlessness of having seasonal napkins". If you wanted to say "men are stupid" you'd have said "men are primitive", it's not hard to tell apart. We do, in fact, have social and contextual awareness, I freely admit that we use obliviousness as a conscious strategy.

                        Are there men who are totally into decorative towels? Sure, but if we hedge everything with "but not everyone does that", "of course, all people are unique and different" then communication becomes a chore. It's like hearing "sunscreen is important" and insisting "of course, if it's winter that's a different issue, we wouldn't want to essentialise weather to be carcinogenic". Come on.

                        And our interaction here, ironically, falls into a similar pattern. "No, really, it's fine that we don't have decorative towels" -- "There must be a deeper meaning behind this, a social force, someone pulling his strings, why would anyone not want to have complex things like decorative towels, what is the meaning of this, am I on top of the situation"... no. He meant what he said, exactly that, and nothing more: My hands are dry, the towels didn't make them dirty again, that's all I need from a towel. I want my pants to have pockets so I buy them with pockets instead of worrying whether they ruin the silhouette and agonising over compromises. There's a lot of freedom in simplicity. That inner mother in law, though? Of course everything is complicated, how else would she be able to drive you crazy.

                        I've got a song for you.

                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                        M This user is from outside of this forum
                        madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                        schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                        #326

                        Bruh 🤢

                        You just sterotyped women so fuckin gross here. Jesus christ

                        B 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                        0
                        • N newfie@lemmy.ml

                          Lots of people die in the United States as it is. Homelessness is rising drastically. How long until you're next to be put out onto the street? Your employer can't wait until they can automate your job and fire you.

                          Also, the United States has a long history of carrying out genocide even prior to Gaza. Odd given your fallacious implication that capitalism is peaceful

                          Link Preview Image
                          Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66 - Wikipedia

                          favicon

                          (en.m.wikipedia.org)

                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          blarghly@lemmy.world
                          schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                          #327

                          Top tier whataboutism.

                          Anyway, my point is that any time someone says "I know exactly what I'm doing. Follow me in my massive restructuring of society!" The results typically land somewhere between a massive waste of money for unappealing infrastructure, to everyone dies in war and starvation. The particular political bent doesn't matter. Restructuring a society is like cutting all the leaves off a tree so you can put them where you think they should go.

                          N 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • G gap@lemmy.world

                            You're part of the problem

                            P This user is from outside of this forum
                            P This user is from outside of this forum
                            prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                            schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                            #328

                            Nah, I'm just not a fucking loser

                            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                            0
                            • K keenflame@feddit.nu

                              Fuck you. Losers that can't be laid. Yes. When they are constantly told to man up and get girls.. Where do you think they go? Wtf is wrong with you. You replied to this with exactly the lack of equipment to handle the manosphere they were talking about. Without compassion you are even worse as you ruin your and others chance to fix it. Hateful and completely useless to say these things. You really think the kids think "I'm gonna be an asshole" for no reason? It takes time to be brain washed by the pick up artists. It just speaks to them

                              zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                              zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                              zdl@lazysoci.al
                              schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                              #329

                              Fuck you.

                              I think someone is missing what "losers that can't be laid" actually means.

                              Short answer: no.

                              Longer answer: Aw HELL no!

                              1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                              1
                              • B blarghly@lemmy.world

                                Top tier whataboutism.

                                Anyway, my point is that any time someone says "I know exactly what I'm doing. Follow me in my massive restructuring of society!" The results typically land somewhere between a massive waste of money for unappealing infrastructure, to everyone dies in war and starvation. The particular political bent doesn't matter. Restructuring a society is like cutting all the leaves off a tree so you can put them where you think they should go.

                                N This user is from outside of this forum
                                N This user is from outside of this forum
                                newfie@lemmy.ml
                                schrieb am zuletzt editiert von newfie@lemmy.ml
                                #330

                                The current structure of society is wrong and is extremely harmful. Oligarchy is an abomination which produces terrible outcomes.

                                You wouldn't choose this system in a vacuum. Therefore, the system must be fundamentally altered. To oppose this restructuring is both cruel and irrational. It is the epitome of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - you're so afraid of change that you'd rather keep an evil system in place.

                                Such paralyzing cowardice is not reasonable, and it is even less reasonable to feel smug about such cowardice. If you are going to protect this harmful system, then the more appropriate emotion to feel is shame.

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                                • C catty@lemmy.world

                                  we should change our own environments so that they don’t feel the need anymore to have their own space.

                                  "we" unequivocally means "men", right? And how is this done... by preventing exclusive communities and only having inclusive communities. "Online" and "safe spaces" are oxymorons.

                                  zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  zdl@lazysoci.al
                                  schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                  #331

                                  You're doing fine without the first half of oxygen there.

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                                  0
                                  • D demdaru@lemmy.world

                                    Eh. Nothin' to lose.

                                    What are men’s problems? What problem do we suffer that also doesn’t affect women?

                                    Women have strong support movement on their side. It's not something they gain only through their sex, but rather something they gain I think mostly due to the same gender stereotypes that also act against them.

                                    Same stereotypes which isolate men and make them suffer in silence and alone, making showing any sign of weakness a fatal mistake.

                                    Isn’t that what you are doing to feminist right now? Isn’t that what the article is talking about with the man-o-sphere?

                                    I honestly don't see your point here - what commenter above you said is right, and sure as hell they didn't mention that it doesn't work the other way around.

                                    Lol, like we men are immune from corporations promoting masculinity? Old spice, axe body spray, every sports based commercial… What gender do you think the majority of the CEO for these companies are?

                                    What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity. Also, as far as I understand it, what you quoted above this part is just continuation of the point above it, nothing to add here.

                                    Capitalism isn’t a fucking gender problem…it is the thing making everyone’s lives miserable. If we wanted to examine gender in capitalism we can take a look at which of the genders gains more from the system. What percent of the oligarchs are men, how many billionaires are men, how many senators and judges that keep the system going… it’s mostly dudes.

                                    Yeah, but affects genders differently. Men are eaten, ground to a paste and then spat out. Women are bellitled and their work is seen as substandard. One side doesn't make the other any less, both are problems and commenter above you didn't say men have it worse, just that they suffer from it.

                                    And the rich switch genders or something? Women can’t be part of the struggle against capitalism? What is wrong with you guys, do you not have mothers, sisters, women in your lives who are just friends?

                                    What commenter above you is alluding to is the point of the whole post - Men do not get help. We do not have the same societal networks that women have to get together and stand up. And even if women decided to fight for us, it's for naught until we are able to start getting up by ourselves.

                                    Young white men are being squeezed out of the ownership class for the first time and it’s because it’s the only demographic that hasn’t already been squeezed at this late stage of capitalism. The problem isn’t with women, it is the economic system that dangles a carrot for some, so they’ll wield the stick against others…and we’re all out of carrots. Welcome to the party, everyone else has been getting the stick the whole fucking time.

                                    'kay. What's with that obsession with women? Commenter above you mentioned once that feminism can use men to portray them as evil, which they do because guess who makes them suffer most, and yet due to that you immediately went and threw everything they said as if they did nothing else but accuse women of men's suffering.

                                    All in all, as far as I understand the comment above you, all boils down to:

                                    • Women gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
                                    • Corporations gain on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.
                                    • Rich gain, and even if not then loose nothing on current situation so it makes sense they don't act.

                                    Which are answers to question at the beggining:

                                    Is there even an incentive for solving men’s problems?

                                    IMO, the incentive is for us to move our asses, take notes from women and build our own support networks. But that is actually fought against by conservatists/right-wingers, because lonely and lost men make cheap and easily influenced canon fodder.

                                    zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    zdl@lazysoci.al
                                    schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                    #332

                                    What are men problems, huh? Like, dunno, expectation to always go after that false masculinity.

                                    And you think we don't have expectations foisted on us? Expectation to raise the children. Expectation to do the housework. All while conforming to standards of beauty that range from the uncomfortable to the literally lethal.

                                    Compassionate fucking Buddha, there's a reason why the manosphere is pointed at in disbelief and it's right fucking here!

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                                    • mitm0@lemmy.worldM mitm0@lemmy.world

                                      You don't believe in equality, PERIOD. Because people like you oppose women being drafted. You also deny systemic misandry like the alimony laws & even support policies like abolishing prisons for women & reduced sentencing for women & only women.

                                      There are multiple documented evidences of feminists shaming men into getting drafted while they get to be safe & secure & one of their excuses was "We have a crisis in masculinity" & Finland has a women-majority govt, of course the diversity part is a lie.

                                      EU is led by feminists & BTW, pandering to women is also feminism, there are literally reserved seats for women & a male-only draft. These are all Equity to you huh

                                      I like how you're putting in so much effort into pushing the narrative that it's men who do it, when the biggest warmongers just so happen to be women & there's not a single word of opposition to the draft by feminists.

                                      Like the White-feather movement being nationalistic, yet it was still women who shamed men into fighting the war (women didn't want to go to war & even today women as a whole are opposed to conscription for women)

                                      Reminder women in the military are placed in either guard duty or administration.

                                      zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      zdl@lazysoci.al
                                      schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                      #333

                                      Because people like you oppose women being drafted.

                                      Anybody sane opposes the draft for women. Because anybody sane opposes the draft for anybody, a set that clearly includes women.

                                      Stop blaming straw feminists for your own shortcoming you grotty little boy.

                                      mitm0@lemmy.worldM C 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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                                      • P pulsewidth@lemmy.world

                                        Bill Maher is Joe Rogan for people who think they're too smart for Joe Rogan. He never has an important point to make about anything and is usually completely misinformed. This is a rich white Jewish guy that rarely sees any value in issues raised by any other demographic, yet always complains any time there is even a mild issue facing rich/white/Jewish guys.

                                        Women make up more than 50% of the population, but make up 30% of the leads in Hollywood roles, up from the previous 15% - conspiracy of the woke!
                                        Or, maybe.. The marketing teams figured out that women would rather watch a movie with a female lead more often. Or maybe.. its a load of horseshit.

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        Not Quite Year of the Woman: Just 30 Percent of 2023’s Movies Had Female Leads

                                        Just 30 percent of Hollywood movies in 2023 featured women leads or co-leads, according to the latest study from Annenberg Inclusion Initiative.

                                        favicon

                                        The Hollywood Reporter (www.hollywoodreporter.com)

                                        Can't believe I'm reading defence of the manosphere on Lemmy, but here we are.

                                        zdl@lazysoci.alZ This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        zdl@lazysoci.al
                                        schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                        #334

                                        Believe it. There's a single community in the Lemmyverse that is "women only". And it's a fucking magnet for passing men who absolutely have to make sure they're heard in this one single community when 99.44% of the other communities are so dominated by men that women participating is practically a unicorn.

                                        Even the "leftists" of Lemmy can't stand a women's space. Lemmy is the manosphere!

                                        P C 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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                                        • F fedditor385@lemmy.world

                                          Because more women than men want to be in daycare, it's unrealistic to expect the same amount of men want to be in daycase as women. And the gender ratio of employees doesn't mean thats also the ratio of what kids will take away from this. Does this mean that in daycare without any men the kids have only 50% of the care they need? Of course not.

                                          Again, ONE DOESNT EXCLUDE THE OTHER. Everyone has empathy and resilience, but so far in general women tend to be better at empathy and men in resilience. Why force one to do both, when both can thrive in what they do better?

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                                          barsoap@lemm.ee
                                          schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                          #335

                                          Because more women than men want to be in daycare it’s unrealistic to expect the same amount of men want to be in daycase as women.

                                          I don't expect it. It is you who is insisting for no discernible reason that 70:30 is, and I quote, "ideal". It is you who is saying "guys get some other job I don't care how much you want the job and how good you'd be at it, we already have a quota of 30%".

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