Paul McCartney and Dua Lipa urge UK Prime Minister to rethink his AI copyright plans. A new law could soon allow AI companies to use copyrighted material without permission.
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If they are training the AI with copyrighted data that they aren't paying for, then yes, they are doing the same thing as traditional media piracy. While I think piracy laws have been grossly blown out of proportion by entities such as the RIAA and MPAA, these AI companies shouldn't get a pass for doing what Joe Schmoe would get fined thousands of dollars for on a smaller scale.
The act of copying the data without paying for it (assuming it's something you need to pay for to get a copy of) is piracy, yes. But the training of an AI is not piracy because no copying takes place.
A lot of people have a very vague, nebulous concept of what copyright is all about. It isn't a generalized "you should be able to get money whenever anyone does anything with something you thought of" law. It's all about making and distributing copies of the data.
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The act of copying the data without paying for it (assuming it's something you need to pay for to get a copy of) is piracy, yes. But the training of an AI is not piracy because no copying takes place.
A lot of people have a very vague, nebulous concept of what copyright is all about. It isn't a generalized "you should be able to get money whenever anyone does anything with something you thought of" law. It's all about making and distributing copies of the data.
Where does the training data come from seems like the main issue, rather than the training itself. Copying has to take place somewhere for that data to exist. I'm no fan of the current IP regime but it seems like an obvious problem if you get caught making money with terabytes of content you don't have a license for.
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Can the rest of us please use copyrighted material without permission?
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Says the dude who completed a song using AI.
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Says the dude who completed a song using AI.
He used AI to Isolate John's voice from an old Demo. As long as a percentage of the proceeds of the song goes to John's estate, I don't think it's quite the same as AI ripping off artists.
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He used AI to Isolate John's voice from an old Demo. As long as a percentage of the proceeds of the song goes to John's estate, I don't think it's quite the same as AI ripping off artists.
No it isn’t but I still refuse to choose on purpose to listen to that song. I don’t even know the name.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I can’t stop from hearing the song out in the wild. However I will not seek it out. I just do not want to hear a song purposefully made with AI in such a manner. I’m still bitter that LOVE won a Grammy over the soundtrack to Across the Universe. They only gave the award to LOVE because George Martin was involved in it.
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Where does the training data come from seems like the main issue, rather than the training itself. Copying has to take place somewhere for that data to exist. I'm no fan of the current IP regime but it seems like an obvious problem if you get caught making money with terabytes of content you don't have a license for.
the slippery slope here is that you as an artist hear music on the radio, in movies and TV, commercials. All this hearing music is training your brain. If an AI company just plugged in an FM radio and learned from that music I'm sure that a lawsuit could start to make it that no one could listen to anyone's music without being tainted.
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On the other hand copyright laws have been extended to insane time lengths. Sorry but your grandkids shouldn't profit off of you.
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the slippery slope here is that you as an artist hear music on the radio, in movies and TV, commercials. All this hearing music is training your brain. If an AI company just plugged in an FM radio and learned from that music I'm sure that a lawsuit could start to make it that no one could listen to anyone's music without being tainted.
That feels categorically different unless AI has legal standing as a person. We're talking about training LLMs, there's not anything more than people using computers going on here.
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While I understand their position, I disagree with it.
Training AI on copyrighted data - let’s take music for example - is no different to a kid at home listening to Beatles songs all day and using that as inspiration while learning how to write songs or play an instrument.
You cant copyright a style of music, a sound, or a song structure. As long as the AI isn’t just reproducing the copyrighted content “word for word”, I don’t see what the issue is.
Does the studio ghibli artist own that style of drawing? No, because you can’t own something like that. Others are free to draw whatever they want while replicating that style.
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Can the rest of us please use copyrighted material without permission?
You already likely do. Every book you read and learned from is copyrighted material. Every video you watch on YouTube and learned from is copyrighted material.
The “without permission” is not correct. You’ve got permission to watch/listen/learn from it by them releasing it and you paying any applicable subscription etc costs. AI does the same.
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While I understand their position, I disagree with it.
Training AI on copyrighted data - let’s take music for example - is no different to a kid at home listening to Beatles songs all day and using that as inspiration while learning how to write songs or play an instrument.
You cant copyright a style of music, a sound, or a song structure. As long as the AI isn’t just reproducing the copyrighted content “word for word”, I don’t see what the issue is.
Does the studio ghibli artist own that style of drawing? No, because you can’t own something like that. Others are free to draw whatever they want while replicating that style.
Some company's own some wildly absurd things, copyright is only enforced if you have the money to do your own policing sometimes in multiple continents
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While I understand their position, I disagree with it.
Training AI on copyrighted data - let’s take music for example - is no different to a kid at home listening to Beatles songs all day and using that as inspiration while learning how to write songs or play an instrument.
You cant copyright a style of music, a sound, or a song structure. As long as the AI isn’t just reproducing the copyrighted content “word for word”, I don’t see what the issue is.
Does the studio ghibli artist own that style of drawing? No, because you can’t own something like that. Others are free to draw whatever they want while replicating that style.
if i learn a book by heart, and then go around making money by reciting it, then that's illegal. same thing.
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You already likely do. Every book you read and learned from is copyrighted material. Every video you watch on YouTube and learned from is copyrighted material.
The “without permission” is not correct. You’ve got permission to watch/listen/learn from it by them releasing it and you paying any applicable subscription etc costs. AI does the same.
By "use" I actually meant "reproduce portions of" and "make derivative works of"
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I mean they were trained on copyrighted material and nothing has been done about that so...
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I mean they were trained on copyrighted material and nothing has been done about that so...
So abolish copyright law entirely instead of only allowing theft when capitalists do it.
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if i learn a book by heart, and then go around making money by reciting it, then that's illegal. same thing.
On the other hand, it is not the learning in your example that is illegal, but the recital.
If you learn ten books by heart and make money writing shitty fanfics, thats not necessarily illegal.
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On the other hand, it is not the learning in your example that is illegal, but the recital.
If you learn ten books by heart and make money writing shitty fanfics, thats not necessarily illegal.
well yeah. And it has been proven time and again that they can, and do, regurgitate that training material out quite often
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So abolish copyright law entirely instead of only allowing theft when capitalists do it.
That is definitely one of the most cooked takes I've heard in a while.
Why would anyone create anything if it can immediately be copied with no compensation to you?
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That is definitely one of the most cooked takes I've heard in a while.
Why would anyone create anything if it can immediately be copied with no compensation to you?
Creation happened before intellectual property laws existed.
Creation happens that can be immediately copied with no compensation now, open source software is an example.
