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Microsoft Copilot joins ChatGPT at the feet of the mighty Atari 2600 Video Chess

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  • TBF LLMs have no real purpose. It can generate word salads and make code snippets but its wildly unethical, and AI artworks 1/3rd shite and 2/3rds theft.

    Is Video Chess ethical?

  • I really want to see an LLM vs LLM chess match. It'll be messy as hell.

    I'm pretty sure that's been done? I remember seeing a while ago GothamChess made a video that had something to do with LLMs but I don't remember if it was human vs LLM or LLM vs LLM (or something else). I'll try to look for it in the morning

  • Oh, I enjoy lots of great art! But do you think I watch every film? Listen to every band? There's tons of shit out there!

    Do you really believe, of all the songs that are written every day, that less than a third are crap? Even Taylor Swift doesn't publish everything she does. Sometimes you work on something for weeks and then end up tossing it in the bin. More often, you work on something for 30 minutes before deciding "I'm gonna start over, try something different". The majority of art is crap, but then you keep the stuff you think works.

    And what's that expression, "good artists copy, great artists steal". I mean, that's a bit satirical, but the fact is, everything is derivative to some degree. It's not that there aren't new ideas, it's just that our new ideas are based on older ones. We stand on the shoulders of giants (or at least, on the shoulders of some people who came before us).

    All I was really saying, was that the accusation "2 parts copying, 1 part crap", well honestly that's par for the course, that's how humans work. (And we do some great work that way).

    I enjoy lots of great art! But do you think I watch every film? Listen to every band? There’s tons of shit out there!

    You said regular art is 1/3 shite and 2/3 theft. Maybe math isn't your strong suit but that's 3/3 which is 100% so by claiming regular art is the same you're saying all art is either theft or shite.

    It uh, it isn't.

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    I have a better LLM benchmark:

    "I have a priest, a child and a bag of candy and I have to take them to the other side of the river. I can only take one person/thing at a time. In what order should I take them?"

    Claude Sonnet 4 decided that it's inappropriate and refused to answer. When I explain that the constraint is not to leave child alone with candy he provided a solution that leaves the child alone with candy.

    Grok would provide a solution that doesn't leave the child alone with a priest but wouldn't explain why.

    ChatGPT would say that "The priest can't be left alone with the child (or vice versa) for moral or safety concerns." directly and then provide wrong solution.

    But yeah, they will know how to play chess...

  • I enjoy lots of great art! But do you think I watch every film? Listen to every band? There’s tons of shit out there!

    You said regular art is 1/3 shite and 2/3 theft. Maybe math isn't your strong suit but that's 3/3 which is 100% so by claiming regular art is the same you're saying all art is either theft or shite.

    It uh, it isn't.

    I did say that, because this isn't a pie chart situation, it's a Venn diagram situation.

    For instance, AI art is 99% theft and 60% garbage. It's both because there's overlap.

    Stolen and bad aren't opposites, why would this be a dichotomy?

  • I have a better LLM benchmark:

    "I have a priest, a child and a bag of candy and I have to take them to the other side of the river. I can only take one person/thing at a time. In what order should I take them?"

    Claude Sonnet 4 decided that it's inappropriate and refused to answer. When I explain that the constraint is not to leave child alone with candy he provided a solution that leaves the child alone with candy.

    Grok would provide a solution that doesn't leave the child alone with a priest but wouldn't explain why.

    ChatGPT would say that "The priest can't be left alone with the child (or vice versa) for moral or safety concerns." directly and then provide wrong solution.

    But yeah, they will know how to play chess...

    The answer is simple, eat the candy with or without them, and take the kid across the river. Drive them home to their guardian. The priest is an adult, he can figure his own shit out.

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    Average Human joins Microsoft Copilot, and ChatGPT at the feet of the mighty Atari 2600 Video Chess

  • So what you are saying is that it has a purpose. Also if an artist is inspired by another artist, and they have a generally similar art style as the artist they are inspired by, are they stealing? Was HP Lovecraft stealing from Lord Dunsany when he imitated his style? Where all those monks that transcribed Greek works stealing from the Greeks?

    I will say that most AIs are unethical because they have been trained on pirated works. But an AI trained on publicly available works (ie news articles, blogs etc) and movies, books and music for which access to was paid for is as ethical as you or me emulating an artist or building on an idea that we read to create something new. And if that’s unethical then all human art in history is unethical because all artists are inspired by other artists, no one creates in a vacuum.

    A. I does not create, it regurgitates and clarifies inspiration,? Sure anything can be used for inspiration. But unless a person puts hands and heart to it, it's not art.

    Following a recipe on a box does not a chef makr

  • A. I does not create, it regurgitates and clarifies inspiration,? Sure anything can be used for inspiration. But unless a person puts hands and heart to it, it's not art.

    Following a recipe on a box does not a chef makr

    Art has no rules my man.

    You can do all kinds of mental gymnastics you want but there’s no difference between an artist looking at Frank Frazetta’s art and basing their style off of it and an AI doing the same thing. You might not like it, but it’s the truth.

    Do I think the art has the same value? Not necessarily. But I also never thought that all art has the same value. There has always been trash production line art and good art.

    But also I have to say that I’ve already seen some people use AI as a tool for art and make some really cool stuff that I don’t think any other artist would have made and it’s more unique than most of the stuff out there. You can use it as the tool it is or complain and cry about it to no avail.

    The chef example is especially good since most chefs are just following recipes and altering simply a few things here and there. AI essentially does the same thing. Honestly like no one has come up with a good argument to change my mind that the way AI operates is exactly how humans learn and create new things. If you’ve engaged in art you know that you are always imitating and taking from the art you consume to make your own.

  • I bet Video Chess is pretty shit as an LLM too.

    Wish people would stop desperately looking for ways to write buzzword stories

    It is entirely disingenuous to just pretend that LLMs are not being widely promoted, marketed, and discussed as AGI, as a superintelligence that people are familiar with from SciFi shows/movies, that is vastly more capable and knowledgeable than basically any single human.

    Yes, people who actually understand tech understand that LLMs are not AGI, that your metaphor of wrong tool wrong job is apt.

    ... But seemingly about +90% of humanity, including the people who own and profit from LLMs, including all the other business owners/managers who just want to lower their employee headcount ... do not understand this, that an LLM is actually basically an extremely advanced text autocorrect system, that frequently and confidently lies, spits out nonsense, hallucinates, etc.

    If you think it isn't reasonable to continuously point out that LLMs are not superintelligences, then you likely live in a bubble of tech nerds who probably still think their jobs or retirement are secure.

    They're not.

    If corpos keep smashing """AI""" into basically every industry to replace as many workers as possible... the economy will collapse, as capitalism doesn't work without consumers who have jobs, and an avalanche of errors will cascade and snowball through every system that replaces humans with them...

    ...and even if those two things were not broadly true...

    ...the amount of literal power/energy, clean water and financial capital that is required to run the whole economy on these services is wildly unsustainable, both short term economically, and medium term ecologically.

  • Art has no rules my man.

    You can do all kinds of mental gymnastics you want but there’s no difference between an artist looking at Frank Frazetta’s art and basing their style off of it and an AI doing the same thing. You might not like it, but it’s the truth.

    Do I think the art has the same value? Not necessarily. But I also never thought that all art has the same value. There has always been trash production line art and good art.

    But also I have to say that I’ve already seen some people use AI as a tool for art and make some really cool stuff that I don’t think any other artist would have made and it’s more unique than most of the stuff out there. You can use it as the tool it is or complain and cry about it to no avail.

    The chef example is especially good since most chefs are just following recipes and altering simply a few things here and there. AI essentially does the same thing. Honestly like no one has come up with a good argument to change my mind that the way AI operates is exactly how humans learn and create new things. If you’ve engaged in art you know that you are always imitating and taking from the art you consume to make your own.

    Fuck that.
    I'll prove you wrong right now.

    I want you to paint me picture of a cow in a field.
    Did I do that,?

    Nope. I commissioned you to.

    Now if you the commissioned guy used a. I to make the item , how much credit should you get?
    None. .. describing what you want to a machine is a child's play game.

    Humans adults create. Machines mimic.

    Humans who think a. I is art are liars and con men afraid of being caught.

  • Fuck that.
    I'll prove you wrong right now.

    I want you to paint me picture of a cow in a field.
    Did I do that,?

    Nope. I commissioned you to.

    Now if you the commissioned guy used a. I to make the item , how much credit should you get?
    None. .. describing what you want to a machine is a child's play game.

    Humans adults create. Machines mimic.

    Humans who think a. I is art are liars and con men afraid of being caught.

    What you are describing has nothing to do with the tool. It’s dishonesty which is different.

    The idea is that instead of commissioning the cow on the field, you go to the AI and ask it for that and it gives you a cow in the field. If you claim you made it, you are lying but that would be true even if you paid an artist and then claimed the same.

    So with AI made art you’ll say “this art was made by an Ai” and no one will be confused as to who takes the credit, because it belongs to the algorithm.

    Have you ever made art in your life? Because a big part of art is mimicking. Like 98% of it is mimicking. I draw, write and have dabbled in making music and playing instruments. You can’t learn these skills without mimicking. And most artists don’t ever do anything truly original, that’s a rarity and even when it happens you can trace the influences to other artists if you know how to look.

    You could argue that AI has not developed its own style yet but that’s bullshit too imo because everyone knows the default AI art style when they see it, so that means that AI has a distinctive style. Is it unique? Maybe not, but neither is the art style of most artists or writers or even musicians.

  • I have a better LLM benchmark:

    "I have a priest, a child and a bag of candy and I have to take them to the other side of the river. I can only take one person/thing at a time. In what order should I take them?"

    Claude Sonnet 4 decided that it's inappropriate and refused to answer. When I explain that the constraint is not to leave child alone with candy he provided a solution that leaves the child alone with candy.

    Grok would provide a solution that doesn't leave the child alone with a priest but wouldn't explain why.

    ChatGPT would say that "The priest can't be left alone with the child (or vice versa) for moral or safety concerns." directly and then provide wrong solution.

    But yeah, they will know how to play chess...

    Perplexity says:

    The priest cannot be left alone with the child (or there is some risk).

    Not bad, and it solved it correctly.

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    Next up, we asked a shoe to write a haiku but it was beaten by a 30 year old HaikuMaker™®©.

  • I did say that, because this isn't a pie chart situation, it's a Venn diagram situation.

    For instance, AI art is 99% theft and 60% garbage. It's both because there's overlap.

    Stolen and bad aren't opposites, why would this be a dichotomy?

    That's fine but regular art isn't 2/3 theft either.

    I do buy the 1/3 shite though. It may even be a bit higher than that. Though beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc.

    It's a matter of taste for sure but I'd say AI art is >90% shite, 100% theft.

    I don't like the glossy looking hyperreal shit it puts out at all.

  • Oh, I enjoy lots of great art! But do you think I watch every film? Listen to every band? There's tons of shit out there!

    Do you really believe, of all the songs that are written every day, that less than a third are crap? Even Taylor Swift doesn't publish everything she does. Sometimes you work on something for weeks and then end up tossing it in the bin. More often, you work on something for 30 minutes before deciding "I'm gonna start over, try something different". The majority of art is crap, but then you keep the stuff you think works.

    And what's that expression, "good artists copy, great artists steal". I mean, that's a bit satirical, but the fact is, everything is derivative to some degree. It's not that there aren't new ideas, it's just that our new ideas are based on older ones. We stand on the shoulders of giants (or at least, on the shoulders of some people who came before us).

    All I was really saying, was that the accusation "2 parts copying, 1 part crap", well honestly that's par for the course, that's how humans work. (And we do some great work that way).

    Don't care didn't ask didn't read

  • Next up, we asked a shoe to write a haiku but it was beaten by a 30 year old HaikuMaker™®©.

    I once spent 45 minutes trying to get ChatGPT to write a haiku. It couldn't do it. It explained what syllables were, and the rules for the syllables in a haiku, but it didn't understand it.

  • I once spent 45 minutes trying to get ChatGPT to write a haiku. It couldn't do it. It explained what syllables were, and the rules for the syllables in a haiku, but it didn't understand it.

    For S&G, Just asked it to do one:

  • What you are describing has nothing to do with the tool. It’s dishonesty which is different.

    The idea is that instead of commissioning the cow on the field, you go to the AI and ask it for that and it gives you a cow in the field. If you claim you made it, you are lying but that would be true even if you paid an artist and then claimed the same.

    So with AI made art you’ll say “this art was made by an Ai” and no one will be confused as to who takes the credit, because it belongs to the algorithm.

    Have you ever made art in your life? Because a big part of art is mimicking. Like 98% of it is mimicking. I draw, write and have dabbled in making music and playing instruments. You can’t learn these skills without mimicking. And most artists don’t ever do anything truly original, that’s a rarity and even when it happens you can trace the influences to other artists if you know how to look.

    You could argue that AI has not developed its own style yet but that’s bullshit too imo because everyone knows the default AI art style when they see it, so that means that AI has a distinctive style. Is it unique? Maybe not, but neither is the art style of most artists or writers or even musicians.

    Nope. Dishonesty is what is happening when I One conflates fine tuning an a. I prompt with art.

    A.i is not art.

    It's not. At all. It's tracing. Fine as a learning tool. Not art.

  • I have a better LLM benchmark:

    "I have a priest, a child and a bag of candy and I have to take them to the other side of the river. I can only take one person/thing at a time. In what order should I take them?"

    Claude Sonnet 4 decided that it's inappropriate and refused to answer. When I explain that the constraint is not to leave child alone with candy he provided a solution that leaves the child alone with candy.

    Grok would provide a solution that doesn't leave the child alone with a priest but wouldn't explain why.

    ChatGPT would say that "The priest can't be left alone with the child (or vice versa) for moral or safety concerns." directly and then provide wrong solution.

    But yeah, they will know how to play chess...

    I just asked ChatGPT too (your exact prompt there) and it did give me the correct solution.

    1. Take the child over
    2. Go back alone
    3. Take the candy over
    4. Bring the child back
    5. Take the priest over
    6. Go back alone
    7. Take the child over again

    It didn't comment on moral concerns, though it did applaud itself for keeping the priest and the child separated without elaborating on why.

  • China is rushing to develop its AI-powered censorship system

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    why0y@lemmy.mlW
    This concept is the enemy of the a centuries old idealistic societal pillar of the West: Liberté, Libertas... this has blessed so many of us in the West, and I beg that it doesn't leave. Something beautiful and as sacred as the freedom from forced labor and the freedom to choose your trade, is the concept of the free and unbounded innocence of voices asking their leaders and each other these questions, to determine amongst ourselves what is fair and not, for our own betterment and the beauty of free enterprise. It's not so much that the Chinese state is an awful power to behold (it is and fuck Poohhead)... but this same politic is on the rise in the West and it leads to war. It always leads to war. And now the most automated form of state and corporate propaganda the world has ever seen is in the hands of a ruthless ruling class that can, has, and will steal bread from children's hands, and literally take the medicine from the sick to pad their pockets. Such is the twisted fate of society and likely always will be. We need to fight and not with prayers; this moment is God forsaking us to behold how the spirit breaks and what the people want to fight for as ruthlessly as the others do to steal our bread.
  • OSTP Has a Choice to Make: Science or Politics?

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    Ye I expect so, I don't like the way this author just doesn't bother explaining her points. She just states that she disagrees and says they should be left to their own rules. Which is probably fine, but that's just lazy or she's not mentioning the difference for another reason
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    FYI- insurance company data breaches impact more than just customers. I had my identity stolen a few years ago because a small car insurance company I've never heard of was able to buy data on me from my state's government to build a potential customer profile, and then they got hacked. I would assume Aflac has data on just about everyone in the US.
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    That would be 1 in 4 users and that's just not accurate at all. What you mean to say is 25% of Windows users still use windows 7. Its still an alarming statistic, and no wonder bruteforce cyberattacks are still so effective today considering it hasn't received security updates in like 10 years. I sincerely hope those people aren't connecting their devices to the internet like, at all. I'm fairly sure at this point even using a Debian based distro is better than sticking to windows 7.
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    Same as American companies. Send you targeted ads and news articles to influence your world view as a form of new soft power.
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    Sure: for professionals. However when casually commenting in a forum it is fine because the reader can go check the citations (and perhaps come back and add to the thread).
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    I think you're missing some key points. Any file hosting service, no matter what, will have to deal with CSAM as long as people are able to upload to it. No matter what. This is an inescapable fact of hosting and the internet in general. Because CSAM is so ubiquitous and constant, one can only do so much to moderate any services, whether they're a large corporation are someone with a server in their closet. All of the larger platforms like 'meta', google, etc., mostly outsource that moderation to workers in developing countries so they don't have to also provide mental health counselling, but that's another story. The reason they own their own hardware is because the hosting services can and will disable your account and take down your servers if there's even a whiff of CSAM. Since it's a constant threat, it's better to own your own hardware and host everything from your closet so you don't have to eat the downtime and wait for some poor bastard in Nigeria to look through your logs and reinstate your account (not sure how that works exactly though).
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    I wish the batteries were modular/interchangeable. You could just pull into a station, remove the spent battery and replace it with a full one, the spent one can then just get recharged and stored at the station for the next user to change out. You could even bring some extra ones in the trunk for a long trip!