Still work to be done, it uses the blinkers.

That wasn’t FSD. In the crash report it shows FSD wasn’t enabled. The driver applied a torque to the steering wheel and disengaged it. They were probably reaching into the back seat while “supervising”.

I covered that crash.

FSD is never enabled at the moment of impact, because FSD shuts off less than a second before impact, so that Tesla's lawyers and most loyal fans can make exactly the arguments you are making. Torque would be applied to the steering wheel when any vehicle departs the roadway, as the driver is thrown around like a ragdoll as they clutch the wheel. Depending on the car, torque can also be applied externally to the tires by rough terrain to shift the steering wheel.

No evidence to suggest the driver was distracted. Prove me wrong if you have that evidence.

Also welcome to the platform, new user!

That wasn’t FSD. In the crash report it shows FSD wasn’t enabled. The driver applied a torque to the steering wheel and disengaged it. They were probably reaching into the back seat while “supervising”.

You weren't the user who posted that video, but you seem to be quite knowledgeable in this specific case...

Can you link that crash report? Or can you cite some confirmed details about the incident?

Ah, Ok.

I agree with accountability, but not with the point system. That's almost like a "three strikes" rule for drunk drivers.

That's not really accountability, that's handing out free passes.

How about you pay attention and PREVENT the autopilot from killing someone? Like it's your job to do?

When the engine is off?

Of course, how to tell this with an electric car?

Important feedback for the passenger to ensure the car is actually following the rules. I would freak out at a corner if I couldn't tell the car was signaling.

A good example is ADHD. I have severe ADHD so I take meds to manage it. If I am driving an automatic car on cruise control I find it very difficult to maintain long term high intensity concentration. The solution for me is to drive a manual. The constant involvement of maintaining speed, revs, gear ratio, and so on mean I can pay attention much easier. Add to that thinking about hypermiling and defensive driving and I have become a very safe driver, putting about 25-30 thousand kms on my car each year for over a decade without so much as a fender bender. In an automatic I was always tense, forcing focus on the road, and honestly it hurt my neck and shoulders because of the tension. In my zippy little manual I have no trouble driving at all.

Are you me? I love weaving through traffic as fast as I can... in a video game (like Motor Town behind the wheel). In real life I drive very safe and it is boring af for my ADHD so I do things like try to hit the apex of turns just perfect as if I was driving at the limit but I am in reality driving at a normal speed.

Part of living with severe ADHD is you don't get breaks from having to play these games to survive everyday life, as you say it is a stressful reality in part because of this. You brought up a great point too that both of us know, when our focus is on something and activated we can perform at a high level, but accidents don't wait for our focus, they just happen, and this is why we are always beating ourselves up.

We can look at self driving car tech and intuit a lot about the current follies of it because we know what focus is better than anyone else, especially successful tech company execs.

I saw the Tesla Robotaxi:

• Drive into oncoming traffic, getting honked at in the process.
• Signal a turn and then go straight at a stop sign with turn signal on.
• Park in a fire lane to drop off the passenger.

And that was in a single 22 minute ride. Not great performance at all.

Imagine you're the guy who invented SawStop, the table saw that can detect fingers touching the saw blade and immediately bury the blade in an aluminum block to avoid cutting off someone's finger. Your system took a lot of R&D, it's expensive, requires a custom table saw with specialized internal parts so it's much more expensive than a normal table saw, but it works, and it works well. You've now got it down that someone can go full-speed into the blade and most likely not even get the smallest cut. Every time the device activates, it's a finger saved. Yeah, it's a bit expensive to own. And, because of the safety mechanism, every time it activates you need to buy a few new parts which aren't cheap. But, an activation means you avoided having a finger cut off, so good deal! You start selling these devices and while it's not replacing every table saw sold, it's slowly being something that people consider when buying.

Meanwhile, some dude out of Silicon Valley hears about this, and hacks up a system that just uses a $30 webcam, an AI model that detects fingers (trained exclusively on pudgy white fingers of Silicon Valley executives) and a pinball flipper attached to a rubber brake that slows the blade to a stop within a second when the AI model sees a finger in danger.

This new device, the, "Finger Saver" doesn't work very well at all. In demos with a hotdog, sometimes the hotdog is sawed in half. Sometimes the saw blade goes flying out of the machine into the audience. After a while, the company has the demo down so that when they do it in extremely controlled conditions, it does stop the hotdog from being sawed in half, but it does take a good few chunks out of it before the blade fully stops. It doesn't work at all with black fingers, but the Finger Saver company will sell you some cream-coloured paint that you can paint your finger with before using it if your finger isn't the right shade.

Now, imagine if the media just referred to these two devices interchangeably as "finger saving devices". Imagine if the Finger Saver company heavily promoted their things and got them installed in workshops in high schools, telling the shop teachers that students are now 100% safe from injuries while using the table saw, so they can just throw out all safety equipment. When, inevitably, someone gets a serious wound while using a "Finger Saver" the media goes on a rant about whether you can really trust "finger saving devices" at all.

Anyhow, this is a rant about Waymo vs. Tesla.

I know many people who believe that "right on red" means they have the right of way to make the turn and don't have to stop first or yield to traffic.

When the engine is off?

Of course, how to tell this with an electric car?

Imagine you're the guy who invented SawStop, the table saw that can detect fingers touching the saw blade and immediately bury the blade in an aluminum block to avoid cutting off someone's finger. Your system took a lot of R&D, it's expensive, requires a custom table saw with specialized internal parts so it's much more expensive than a normal table saw, but it works, and it works well. You've now got it down that someone can go full-speed into the blade and most likely not even get the smallest cut. Every time the device activates, it's a finger saved. Yeah, it's a bit expensive to own. And, because of the safety mechanism, every time it activates you need to buy a few new parts which aren't cheap. But, an activation means you avoided having a finger cut off, so good deal! You start selling these devices and while it's not replacing every table saw sold, it's slowly being something that people consider when buying.

Meanwhile, some dude out of Silicon Valley hears about this, and hacks up a system that just uses a $30 webcam, an AI model that detects fingers (trained exclusively on pudgy white fingers of Silicon Valley executives) and a pinball flipper attached to a rubber brake that slows the blade to a stop within a second when the AI model sees a finger in danger.

This new device, the, "Finger Saver" doesn't work very well at all. In demos with a hotdog, sometimes the hotdog is sawed in half. Sometimes the saw blade goes flying out of the machine into the audience. After a while, the company has the demo down so that when they do it in extremely controlled conditions, it does stop the hotdog from being sawed in half, but it does take a good few chunks out of it before the blade fully stops. It doesn't work at all with black fingers, but the Finger Saver company will sell you some cream-coloured paint that you can paint your finger with before using it if your finger isn't the right shade.

Now, imagine if the media just referred to these two devices interchangeably as "finger saving devices". Imagine if the Finger Saver company heavily promoted their things and got them installed in workshops in high schools, telling the shop teachers that students are now 100% safe from injuries while using the table saw, so they can just throw out all safety equipment. When, inevitably, someone gets a serious wound while using a "Finger Saver" the media goes on a rant about whether you can really trust "finger saving devices" at all.

Anyhow, this is a rant about Waymo vs. Tesla.

I saw the Tesla Robotaxi:

• Drive into oncoming traffic, getting honked at in the process.
• Signal a turn and then go straight at a stop sign with turn signal on.
• Park in a fire lane to drop off the passenger.

And that was in a single 22 minute ride. Not great performance at all.

I almost failed my first drivers test because I stopped at a stop sign instead of just yielding on a right turn. Still to this day it seems... wrong.

Why would you have failed? You are supposed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

I saw the Tesla Robotaxi:

• Drive into oncoming traffic, getting honked at in the process.
• Signal a turn and then go straight at a stop sign with turn signal on.
• Park in a fire lane to drop off the passenger.

And that was in a single 22 minute ride. Not great performance at all.

That's almost like a "three strikes" rule for drunk drivers.

Oh man, that would be amazing. If after 3 strikes, all drunk driving could be eliminated... If only we could be so lucky.

He's not talking about a per-vehicle points system, he's talking about a global points system for Tesla inc. If after a few incidents, essentially Tesla FSD had it's license revoked across the whole fleet, I mean, that's pretty strict accountability I'd say. That's definitely not handing out free passes, it's more like you get a few warnings and a chance to fix issues before the entire program is ended nation wide.