Do you think a device with regulation circuits is more likely to be overloaded and start fires...?

Uh.

I drove semi trucks in the US for years....

You'd better either double clutch or float those gears, because if you don't, you're destroying your clutch brake, which means you'll have trouble getting it into gear from a dead stop. That applies for both upshifts and downshifts.

Ever sit next to an old truck or bus and hear them grinding gears to get into gear?

That's due to the clutch brake failing to stop the flywheel.

All semi trucks in the US use synchro-less manual transmissions.

When shifting a syncro-less transmission, YOU are the synchro.

The clutch in these trucks has 2 positions. You either just barely engage the clutch enough to break contact, or you depress it fully to engage the clutch brake and (attempt to) stop the flywheel from spinning.

If you do the second one while shifting a moving vehicle, you're causing undue wear and tear on the aforementioned clutch brake.

Well I did say I was being pedantic, which is absolutely the best way to watch fast and furious with friends

My guess would be yes, somewhat, probably. but maybe not much.
As he says in the last part of the video: If it gets hot, you have a problem.

Better ask an electrician.

The devices sold as "EV wall chargers" are not really chargers.
They're simple power suppliy units, whether or not it has bells and whistles to time the charging and what not.

The actual battery charger is in the car. It will attempt to suck as much energy from the PSU as it can and it will itself balance the load and all that. Having a separate unit also trying to regulate the load seems like something that will inevitably create more heat than necessary somewhere in that chain.

Generally speaking you do not need to protect the car from unstable supply. It will protect itself.

I will still recommend getting a proper "EV charger" to ensure that it can utilize all the phases unlike a regular garage plug. Also to ensure that it is properly grounded, which can be an issue for some cars.

At least here in Europe, where we have 3 phases. It's much better to have all 3 phases wide open and let the car suck a little on each, instead of having it overloading a single phase through a granny plug.

I know the American 2 phase circuit is different, but I still believe it's better not to put any more heat inducing obstructions in the chain.

I can't speak for big rigs, but I drive and ride multiple manuals. Synchro or not, there's no reason to double clutch an upshift in the cars under normal or high performance situations. It'd only make sense if I took too long to shift and had the engine rpm fall far below what matches the speed of the next gear. It's a drag race. They're burning synchros to drop 6krpm to 4k in the next gear in half a second. Even in normal driving, dropping 1000rpm or more is plenty of time to catch the next gear. 2 of my mini trucks have burnt synchros on one gear each (prior to my ownership), so I'm pretty well aware of how to time it for a smoother shift on the downfall. If double clutching was necessary on upshifts, I wouldn't be able to do gasless clutchless shifting. But I can

Downshifts, absolutely. There's plenty of reason to double clutch a downshift. The engine is, by definition, under spun for the next gear so yes, blipping it up will make it easier to drop a gear. Not needed for 1 gear at a time with good synchros, but certainly adds consistency when I do a 5>3 downshift to pass in the truck with a burnt 3rd. Almost required when I had braking problems and needed to downshift into 1st since the speed differential was far greater.

The source of the line form the movie is probably from the theatrical soundtrack from Bullitt. The engine sound was recorded separately from a GT40. The driver double clutched because it sounded mean.

Let's not forget the line comes from a scene in which granny shifting burnt the piston rings, dangered the manifold, made the floorboard fall off, and spilled a jar of o-rings.

I assume you used the wrong word towards the end. The flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft. If anything stops the flywheel, the engine is now turned off.

One thing I really don't get in the discussion around EVs and charging is, why are people so afraid of tripping the main breaker? If you have a total of e.g. 17 kW available and happen to go over, just reset the main breaker (or replace it in case it's still a traditional one). It's there precisely so that you wouldn't need to care about overloading the connection.

In my experience people get by with a 3x25A (17 kW available, matches approximately a 70A service in the US) while using the available power to

• heat/cool a single family home (in -20 °C weather mind you)
• run all appliances (including the oven, stove, dryer etc.)
• heat up a sauna
• charge an EV
• whatever else you typically would want to plug in, kettles and such

While it's true you can trip the main breaker if you have everything on at the same time, typically it never happens even if there are no lockouts in place preventing overuse. And it's not like tripping it causes any permanent harm.

Why is an electrical service upgrade constantly brought up as a solution when any home with >15 kW of available power won't need it? Is it against code to purposefully overcommit your mains in the US or something?

Edit: there were valid concerns raised over how long-lived the breakers are (probably won't be rated for tens of fault-condition related trips), also that these smaller service specs aren't as common as I've gathered from the media. That might have something to do with this at least. Thanks for the replies – it's been an interesting discussion.

One thing I really don't get in the discussion around EVs and charging is, why are people so afraid of tripping the main breaker? If you have a total of e.g. 17 kW available and happen to go over, just reset the main breaker (or replace it in case it's still a traditional one). It's there precisely so that you wouldn't need to care about overloading the connection.

In my experience people get by with a 3x25A (17 kW available, matches approximately a 70A service in the US) while using the available power to

• heat/cool a single family home (in -20 °C weather mind you)
• run all appliances (including the oven, stove, dryer etc.)
• heat up a sauna
• charge an EV
• whatever else you typically would want to plug in, kettles and such

While it's true you can trip the main breaker if you have everything on at the same time, typically it never happens even if there are no lockouts in place preventing overuse. And it's not like tripping it causes any permanent harm.

Why is an electrical service upgrade constantly brought up as a solution when any home with >15 kW of available power won't need it? Is it against code to purposefully overcommit your mains in the US or something?

Edit: there were valid concerns raised over how long-lived the breakers are (probably won't be rated for tens of fault-condition related trips), also that these smaller service specs aren't as common as I've gathered from the media. That might have something to do with this at least. Thanks for the replies – it's been an interesting discussion.

In my experience people get by with a 3x25A (17 kW available, matches approximately a 70A service in the US)

Wow, how do you do that?

Of course over-provisioning is a thing but that’s crazy. Maybe you have much smaller appliances or assume much lower usage, but 70a basically assumes 2 major appliances at a time, using close to max load, and with nothing else turned on.

Typical 240v major appliances

• level 2 EV charger: 50a
• stove: 50a
• central ac: 40a
• dryer: 40a
• heat pump: 50a+
• water heater: 50a

Of course you won’t use them all at once and they won’t usually be drawing their full rated load but I would not want to deal with being limited to one at a time so I can also turn on the lights or use the microwave

That can theoretically draw 280a, before you even count things like lights and small appliances. If you added up all possible circuits, you may be hitting 1000a theoretical in a modern house. I’m comfortable that My 200a service will handle any combination I might use, but 70a definitely not

By contrast I once lived in an apartment with 60a service. It did not have most of these large appliances but I frequently tripped the main with combinations like stove + window ac + microwave + lights

One thing I really don't get in the discussion around EVs and charging is, why are people so afraid of tripping the main breaker? If you have a total of e.g. 17 kW available and happen to go over, just reset the main breaker (or replace it in case it's still a traditional one). It's there precisely so that you wouldn't need to care about overloading the connection.

In my experience people get by with a 3x25A (17 kW available, matches approximately a 70A service in the US) while using the available power to

• heat/cool a single family home (in -20 °C weather mind you)
• run all appliances (including the oven, stove, dryer etc.)
• heat up a sauna
• charge an EV
• whatever else you typically would want to plug in, kettles and such

While it's true you can trip the main breaker if you have everything on at the same time, typically it never happens even if there are no lockouts in place preventing overuse. And it's not like tripping it causes any permanent harm.

Why is an electrical service upgrade constantly brought up as a solution when any home with >15 kW of available power won't need it? Is it against code to purposefully overcommit your mains in the US or something?

Edit: there were valid concerns raised over how long-lived the breakers are (probably won't be rated for tens of fault-condition related trips), also that these smaller service specs aren't as common as I've gathered from the media. That might have something to do with this at least. Thanks for the replies – it's been an interesting discussion.

Did that account for battery lifetime, because if not, that could offset efficiency gains as fast charging degrades batteries.

I‘m not sure if fast charging degrades batteries. Just read somewhere an article stating that fast charging initially - first charge - boosts the overall capacity of the batterie due to chemical reactions that do not occur that long at anodes.

The issue with fast charging was the thermal management - it’s getting to hot. This is managed by good battery management and a different packaging of cells nowadays. I think fast charging isn’t an issue anymore. Can’t provide you a link or such, it’s what I gathered through serveral podcasts.

If you could find any evidence to support all that, i might consider it, until then, ill roll with what i know.

Can you source that?

Aside from the heat pump we have all of these things and they’re often running all at once. Never had an outside

Not talking about the circuits, but the main electrical connection to the grid. To me it often seems like there's reluctance in overcommitting overprovisioning that capacity: as an example, four 16A circuits on a 25A main breaker. Here that's quite common, but even in Tech connections videos I've seen him bring up smart electric cabinets or automatic load monitoring when putting enough capacity on the mains to possibly go over.

What I'm asking is, why bother? If you trip the mains by having too much load, just reset the breaker and be done with it. No need to automate things to not run into that situation, one will learn to not have the oven on while charging the car full blast. No need to gimp the charger amperage since you're running a new circuit anyway, and it's not like it's much different running a 20A circuit vs a 40A one. If that's 70% of your total available capacity, it doesn't matter – worst you have to do is walk downstairs and flip a switch.

In my experience people get by with a 3x25A (17 kW available, matches approximately a 70A service in the US)

Wow, how do you do that?

Of course over-provisioning is a thing but that’s crazy. Maybe you have much smaller appliances or assume much lower usage, but 70a basically assumes 2 major appliances at a time, using close to max load, and with nothing else turned on.

Typical 240v major appliances

• level 2 EV charger: 50a
• stove: 50a
• central ac: 40a
• dryer: 40a
• heat pump: 50a+
• water heater: 50a

Of course you won’t use them all at once and they won’t usually be drawing their full rated load but I would not want to deal with being limited to one at a time so I can also turn on the lights or use the microwave

That can theoretically draw 280a, before you even count things like lights and small appliances. If you added up all possible circuits, you may be hitting 1000a theoretical in a modern house. I’m comfortable that My 200a service will handle any combination I might use, but 70a definitely not

By contrast I once lived in an apartment with 60a service. It did not have most of these large appliances but I frequently tripped the main with combinations like stove + window ac + microwave + lights

There’s a standard

• https://ask-the-electrician.com/residential-electrical-load-calculation.html

Then you’d round up to the nearest service level. Realistically, I believe most recent-ish houses are 200a service now with larger ones or hot climates tending to 300a+

Also worth noting that breaker ratings are for instantaneous usage. A 15A 120v breaker can only actually support 12A of continuous usage. But it says 15, because most things use a little extra power when they first turn on. AC system spinning up the fans and compressor, for instance. Spinning things up takes more power than keeping it moving. If you put a 15A device on a 15A breaker, it would likely trip as soon as that device turned on. In that instance, you’d likely use a 20A breaker to support the 15A device instead. But that 20A breaker would also call for upgraded wiring and outlets which could support 20A.

At least here the electrical service base rate is largely set by the max amperage you can draw from the grid. I'll use my own home's electricity cost breakdown as an example (all listed prices, even the additional tax, include our 25.5 % VAT)

1. Monthly base rate for your main breaker, depends on your grid operator – mine is 7.63€ for 3x25 A connection (among the cheapest grids in Finland, I previously used another example often seen in smaller cities, which is 29.71 €/month)
2. Transfer costs, 0.0187 €/kWh during day, 0.0089 €/kWh during night
3. Electricity tax, 0.0282752 €/kWh, includes national energy security taxes as well
4. Cost of the actual electricity, typically ranges from -0.05 €/kWh to 0.20 €/kWh with yearly average being about 0.055 €/kWh
5. Electricity company's margin for spot prices, 0.004 €/kWh
6. Electricity company's base rate, 4.90 €/Month

For many cities in Finland the base rate for grid connection is considerably higher, and especially for apartments tends to be the majority of your electricity bill outside major urban centers. Even in cities it makes up a large percentage, so there's a big incentive to not overspec your service.

As a European those power draws listed sound absolutely absurd to me. I mean, I can easily believe you, but a stove pulling 50 A at 240 V, so 12 kW, sounds like a complete overkill in normal use. The dryer power use also sounds comically high, when viewed from a country where heat pump dryers are the norm.

Let's go for a standard single family home example. Level 2 charger is either 8 A (5.5 kW) or 16 A (11 kW) three phase. On top of that, typical sauna is 6-7.5 kW, 1-2 heat pumps (approx. 1.5 kW a piece), stove (8.5 kW max), water heater (2-3 kW), + other appliances like dishwasher, washing machine etc.

It would seem like that easily trips the breaker, but you won't be charging the car and warming up the sauna at the same time, unless opting to 5.5 kW charging. However, you typically charge the car at night, when the other things running are the heat pumps and the water heater – this will end up drawing around 16 kW total (in the worst case scenario) which fits in the limit. When you don't count the car into the mix, there's plenty of power to go around.

There are multiple reasons behind this. One is our homes are relatively well insulated, which means that we can get by with a lot less AC and heating. Appliances in the EU are also generally more efficient – as an example, our dryers are typically based on heat pumps and pull a lot less amperage for the same performance. Lot of homes also don't have a dryer. Stoves have generally lower power requirements as well, and practically never draw peak power. Here's an example washer+dryer combo where the suggested fuse for the whole thing is 10 A (meaning 2.3 kW available for the combo).

So listing the same appliances you have (at 230 V single phase equivalent for simplicity, i.e. 75 A available (3 * 25))

• level 2 EV charger: 24-48 A depending on chosen speed
• stove: 20 A
• Heat pumps (also used for AC) worst case scenario approx. 15 A, practically only reached for longer periods in extreme cold
• dryer and washing machine: 10 A
• water heater: 16 A

Which will result in 79 A total worst case or 103 A depending on the car charger spec. A bit over the 75 A available, and not calculating additional smaller loads like the microwave, kettle, TV, lighting etc. That worst case will in practice never be reached, though, and even the main breaker typically has some tolerance before it trips (usually main breaker is using a slow-blow fuse equivalent profile, which doesn't immediately trip with a minor overload or a short spike). Our code mandates enough tolerance in wiring gauges that this doesn't pose any risk.

Why don't we want the added headroom then? Upgrading the service from 3x25A to 3x35A isn't really that expensive in urban areas, and can be done relatively simply? Well – Finns are stingy and depending on who happens to own your local distribution grid you can get heavily penalized monetarily in the long term, when upgrading the service to a higher tier. Caruna owns a lot of the Finnish distribution grid nowadays, and as an example from their pricing chart going from 3x25A to 3x35A raises your monthly base rate from 29.71 € to 51.68 €. That's 240 € extra per year, which is a pretty high cost for a just in case that's easily avoided. In cities that still have municipally owned distribution (Lahti, Turku, Helsinki as an example) the costs are typically much lower, both for upgrading the service and monthly costs, compared to the privately owned grids.